Barna’s statistics recently came out about giving trends over the past year. I just recently posted my thoughts about that as well. Here is the question, Why is giving down? Is it because of a bad economy? Is it because of gas prices? Is it because pastors aren’t preaching tithing enough? Probably due to the backlash against tithing, i’m sure pastors are preaching more about tithing. they have to keep up with the grandeur religious empires. After all it’s all about building the kingdom of ?_______?
So why is giving down? Maybe it’s because pastors are less concerned with the relationship that their congregation has with God and are more concerned with keeping their empire flourished. I don’t know. For those of you out there, that are just gritting your teeth about my attitude towards pastors, just take a deep breath, because i greatly recognize that many pastors have kept their church on the right track.
Why should it matter that the economy is bad or that gas is $5 a gallon. If the people of God are right with God then why should our giving struggle?
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Tags: church, giving, god, stewardship, tithing
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Sometimes the giving bypasses the collection plate and goes straight to the receiver. It irked my former paster when I would ask him if there were any financial needs in the body that I could contribute to and I was instructed to just put it in the offering plate and the church would make sure it got to the right person. I did that the first time just to learn that the person who needed the help never got it. So had I followed the Spirit and gave it directly to the need, they would have seen God at work through his people, one oerson at a time.
Good comment ken,
I had just made a statement the other day that was along the lines of what you have said. The Holy Spirit is living and breathing in you, not just the deacons that allocate your church’s budget. Don’t promote thoughtless giving through an automated tithe. Promote Spiritual maturity through Spirit-guided giving.
I gave to a bum yesterday outside of a Win co foods. I don’t know how he will spend the change that I gave him but I said “Jesus loves you!”. Everytime I give to a homless person or when I give a tip I try to remember to say the name of Jesus to the reciever of my gift. I gave a plummer 30 dollars for doing some off the books work on my sink. He said you don’t have to pay me and I said This is from Jesus. I feel that Christians should say the name of Jesus more often so that people will know who to thank for Christian generosity. Folks would associate Jesus with Charity. Even if Bums and my plumber mismanage my money they know who it comes from-Jesus. The name of Jesus is lifted up better in my opinion when Christians use their imagination while giving.
Christian’s are more afraid of the IRS than they are of God ! They don’t tithe because God ‘can’t make ‘ them. They are disobedient , unholy , and robbers.
A non tither has an issue with God NOT with their Pastor.
Mike. . . Mike. . . Mike. . . (sigh),
What makes you think that God is happy with 10%? What makes you think that pastors devouring widows houses and forcing them to tithe is holy?
Caring for widows and orphans from those tithes is also Biblical. Not to care for these people is non-Biblical. ‘Devouring widows houses’ ? I am sorry that a pastor somewhere let you down but we must stick with the Bible.
Jesus taught tithing. Mt 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Lu 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
We are to tithe. This is an OT and NT truth. We are also to give offerings – thus we give God more than ‘10%’. A proper understanding of tithing begins with the fact that ALL 100% belongs to God. As a steward we are to oversee EVERYTHING God has given to us.
I have to respond to Mike. Your attitude is a perfect example of the kind of OT style legalism that has infected the NT church since the 6th century. Prior to that, the early Church gave their money, not to building projects, staff salaries, etc., but to aid the poor and the widows.
Perhaps you might want to go to the website: shouldthechurchteachtithing.com to discover what God teaches the NT church regarding our finances. Allow God to fill your heart with grace, rather than judgment and condemnation.
If giving was done in the NT manner of the 2nd Corithians chapters 8 & 9 passages, which is grace giving or giving in the age of grace, I don’t believe giving would be down at at all.
Mike
Those passages are Jesus’ rebuke of the Pharisees’ self-righteouness not instructions for tithing.
That is legalism.
Those are weak proof-texts in isolation for the purpose of building a doctrine tithing from the New Testament.
No honest expositor or student of scripture can look objectively at a single New Testament passage or text of scripture, and pull tithing out from their.
I just love all this talk about LEGALISM. You ‘ Bible Experts’ don’t even know what LEGALISM is.
By definition : Legalism is a religious system of good works whereby a person hopes ot obtain salvation. Legalism is follwing the law in order to be saved.
Next time you thorw legalism around use it is context.
By the way – all you GRACE GIVERS…
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. Grace is an OT/NT truth. You people make me laugh with your lack of understanding. You start with the belief that tithing is wrong and then twist truth to justify your sin.
By the way – I’d love to see your GRACE GIVING record just once. Not only would I guess that your NOT tithing – I would venture to say that your not GRACE GIVING either.
God Bless you wonderful know it all !
I CORRECTED MY SPELLING ON THIS ONE BEFORE YOU ATTACK ME ON THAT ALSO !
I just love all this talk about LEGALISM. You ‘ Bible Experts’ don’t even know what LEGALISM is.
By definition : Legalism is a religious system of good works whereby a person hopes to obtain salvation. Legalism is follwing the law in order to be saved.
Next time you throw legalism around use it is context.
By the way – all you GRACE GIVERS…
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. Grace is an OT/NT truth. You people make me laugh with your lack of understanding. You start with the belief that tithing is wrong and then twist truth to justify your sin.
By the way – I’d love to see your GRACE GIVING record just once. Not only would I guess that your NOT tithing – I would venture to say that your not GRACE GIVING either.
God Bless you wonderful know it alls !
Mike…such vitriol in your tone! Forgive me if I responded to you in that way.
A couple of points:
I started with the desire to learn what the Bible says about stewardship. After much study God revealed to me through His word that the mandatory payment of a tithe is not binding on the Church. You are incorrect to assume that I (and perhaps others) BEGAN with the premise that tithing is not for today.
You are also incorrect to assume that I do not give 10%- in fact I give more that a tenth, though I am not obligated by the Scripture to do so. I do it voluntarily and cheerfully. THAT’s Biblical!
I am certainly no “bible expert”, just a sincere follower of Christ. However, there are many true Bible scholars/theologians who have reached the same conclusion regarding tithing.
Regarding grace, I know that I could have fellowship with you as a believer, even with your view on tithing. Could you do the same? If not, you need to evaluate if you are capable of extending grace to others.
Blessings.
Toddo
Maybe…it’s as simple as God’s people live in a world where unemployment has risen. The unemployed can’t give…even if they believe they should.
As a Pastor that loves Gods Church I feel it is so sad when Christians fight over an issue that should unite us not divide. Giving is a form of worship to God, who can forget the words of Jesus about the old widow with a couple of pennies.
It is very simple and this is what we teach our church:
1/ Be a cheerful giver with a good heart.
2/ Tithing is a God given pricipal that we can choose to use in our giving but we are no longer under the law of tithing.
3/ Know way in the NT does it say tithing is wrong.
I would say to both camps on this issue please don’t teach or make out the NT teaches Yes or No on tithing, instead show the maturity we should all show to one another that if one chooses to tithe thats OK, if one chooses not to, then make sure your giving is still from the heart.
Glenn,
you misunderstand the issue at hand here. No one is bothered that people are giving 10% of their income. Just like no one is bothered that people are still being circumcised. The problem is the enforcement of tithing on people. As long as tithing is enforced on people, then i will fight back against it.
I am not standing up for my cause. This is the word of God i’m standing up for. You said it yourself, ‘we are no longer under the law of tithing’ and yet you have no backbone to stand up against those who rob widow’s houses. Maybe that’s not a cause worthy enough to stand up for. I don’t know, why don’t you see the response of Jesus in Matthew 23.
-jared
It grieves me that so many (most) churches REQUIRE tithing to become a member and to be accepted into the local church. I know of a number of churches in my area that require believers to sign a card vowing to tithe…such coercion! Giving of any amount that doesn’t cheerfully come from the heart is not pleasing in the eyes of God
Galations 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with te Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking, and envying each other.
All of us who have posted here appear to be part of the church; that is the body of Christ (no matter what church building or congregation you might be associated with). These words apply to us. The whole world can see this string of comments and this is what non-believers see when they look at the body of Christ. Do you think Jesus would realy use terms like “vitriol in your tone” or “You ‘ Bible Experts’” to make a case for what one should be giving to God?
Each person should pray and seek what God would have him do. Jesus told a ruler in Luke 18:22 to sell everything and give it to the poor. Then in Luke 21:34 a widow’s offering was considered “more than all the others” with her two very small copper coins.
When I started attending a church, I did not feel I had enough to give, but I found over the first few years there that I was limiting what God could do through me by that thinking. Now I give more than 10% to my church AND I give to those in need around me and I have seen my income (or God’s that he lets me use) increase over that period of time, even in this poor economy.
It’s not the economy, our thology, statistics or our church leaders that should dictate what should be given to God and where it should be spent. It the Holy Spirit that lives within us all and speaks to us each individually as to what God’s will is for us, but remember…God doesn’t contradict Himself, so whatever He’s telling you…it has to line up wih scripture OT AND NT. So pray, study, and then take it to action!
Blessings
Kelly,
Thanks for your thoughts on financial giving- they echo the opinions of many believers, myself included. Our giving is truly “whatever you purpose in your heart to do”.
I do take one small issue with you, however, When a church requires a tithe from it’s members, declaring it to be a scriptural mandate, that must be firmly resisted. It is simply NOT SCRIPTURAL! That is, tithing is NOT required for the NT church.
If you notice, the judgmental attitude has come from the pro-tithe camp in this thread. Jesus called the legalists of His time “a brood of vipers”, and overturned the tables of those who would profit from the worship of God. The only people Jesus strongly confronted were the religious who forced laws upon the faithful that went beyond what God required.
I have no problem with christians tithing- just don’t try to force that opinion on the rest of us! God will lead.
Blessings,
Toddo
Toddo,
Please read Matthew 23:23, where Jesus himself speaks on tithing.
Melissa
Hi Melissa,
If you are referring to Jesus’ words to the Pharisees (I don’t have my Bible in front of me), me must put this in it’s historical context. Jesus was speaking to men UNDER THE MOSAIC LAW. Of course they were expected to tithe of their spices- the fruit of the land.
We are not under that law anymore. Both the ceremonial as well as the civic law (which tithing was a part of) has been done away with- fulfilled in Christ. The NT instruction concerning stewardship is quite detailed, but there is no mandate for believers to continue- or preachers to require- the practice of tithing.
Blessings.
Toddo
Thank you Toddo
Toddo Please come on over to the blog and make a post there from time to time and tell a friend.
Preachers should not “require” anything. Moreover, one should be careful of a preacher that “requires” tithing. Tithing is a personal practice between the tither and God. To say that it is done away with through the blood of Jesus, is where we disagree. Tithing, for me, has strengthened my faith in God. It has afforded me tangible evidence of how God “makes ways” . As a result, my ENTIRE SPIRITUAL LIFE has been strengthened in ways that are not as measurable as finances.
Mellissa your understanding of tithes as voluntary is uncommon. Most U.S. Christians who use the word tithe think it to mean somthing like this
“10% of all Christian money to the local church. Pastors spend the tithes and members of church pay or they are in sin”
Becase most Christians think this even if a pastor belevies in a free system of tithing when the tithe envelope comes around the Christian still feels
“10% of all Christian money to the local church. Pastors spend the tithes and members of church must pay or they are in sin”
Mellissa do you see my point? The tithe of Abraham if he gave freely is an example of a voluntary tithe.
Abraham gave not under the law of moses and his gift might have been voluntary However the Law of moses tithes were not voluntary. There was no tithe of money and the poor did not pay.
The tithes as understood by most U.S. evangelical Christians makes no exeption for the poor and consist of money although there was no tithe of money because all tithes were eaten by somone.
The phrase “eat the tithe” is found many times in the Bible but I have never heard a message on it. The weirdest scripure on tithing is in Deuteronomy 14 where tithes are also “wine and strong drink”
Have you ever heard of the beer tithe?
All Christians are priest so there should be only voluntary giving from one priest to another. “Ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood”
I think the word tithe should be retired and substuted with giving or offering because these words are less loaded.
What do you think?
A tithe simply means a tenth. The Bible is a spiritual book. It is plain to those who are led by God’s Spirit. It is not possible for the man to understand it without the spirit (I Corinthians 2:14) so, “retiring” or “substituting” words will do no good. What do you think?
Acts 2:44-5 we should use ALL our surplus resources to help the truly needy
Acts 6:3 give to people we trust so its not wasted
Global communication enables me to give to Christian missionaries I know personally in India & Africa
I don’t give much to secular charities as they get donations from secular sources
I see those who believe (and practice) in tithing today, by their tithing alone, cause uneasyness, disturbance and often offense to those who believe, teach and preach against the practice of tithing (today) and the people who testify about tithing — Of course, there are those who preach tithing as the teaching of UTMOST IMPORTANCE in their ministry — we can consider (judge their acts) them straight as materialistic, or maybe just hungry and or totally needy, because their living expenses or their existence are dependent totally on their tithe take — many of us have these kind of experiences with such Christian preachers and teachers. On the other hand, those who are tithing must not be offended in anyway by those who hold the view that any kind or form of tithing is not scriptural today (in the Church) for the truth sets people free. The truth is, tithing was done by people of faith. It was done before the laws of Moses by people who have faith to honor to worship God. When the law given, tithing became a command (a national law) to all Israelites. Now in the New Testament, when Jesus walked the earth, did he practice tithing? — we all know he did. Did he teach tithing to his disciples or did he teach against practising it? — again, we know what Jesus did. Now, after Jesus ascended to heaven, and the disciples were left, did they Apostles teach against tithing? — we can find no scriptural basis if ever they did. So we cannot presume and hold to any view or reason that indeed the disciples did cease in the practise tithing. It is same to assume, that what Jesus taught them, they faithfully continued. What about the Apostle to the gentiles? – Did he (Apostle Paul) tithe or not? Did he teach for it or against it? Or more importantly did he contradicted (directly or indirectly) any teaching of the other Apostles regarding tithing in the Church or tithe giving? — Materialistic preachers and teachers, with all their ministry abuses, their personal hunger in ministering, with all their just and unjust reasons for preaching, teaching, emphasizing, collecting, demanding, etc. on tithes, whether to practise it or not — does not change the fact that people (who have faith) of the scriptures, before the law, under the law and not, in the Old or in the New Testament — THIS IS THE TRUTH that is timeless — the people who have faith, people who honored and served God gave their tithe. Should we do it today? Should we practise tithing now in our lives? Should we speak for the practise of it? – or should we deny it, speak and teach against it? – - – We all know the answer that stands the test of time — for that is the truth of God. Many hold to a wrong view of 2 Cor 9:7 which I here quote “..as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give..”. Before they quote this verse 7 for their good reasons and genuine intentions, they must read verse 1 first of Chapter 9 – the topic or issue of the Chapter 9, is not about tithing, but of giving, helping ministering to the saints (brethren). Giving, helping and ministering to brethren must be a decision of the heart — if I give a brother a drink, plus a sumptuous meal it must be my own decision. If others give not just food, they buy brethren groceries, it must be their heart’s decision — I cannot comment on their heart’s decision. Now, if some others brethren, give the poor saint (or saints) shelter, lodging for the week, and clothes … or job, or business, or all of their savings — one thing is definite, in helping the brethren, it must be the decision of one’s heart. The Lord will bless those who give a penny or a quarter, equally as those who help their brethren with their life’s excessiveness provided in comes from the good decision of their own free will. Quoting the freedom or liberty cited in verse 7 and applying its teaching to tithing is entirely off the scope and issue of the whole chapter. We are all wise in life and in reason being not babes in the matters of scriptural faith. May our collective wisdom be a constant light that shines bright to help others find truth in the dark and confused communities God has placed us to be for His purpose.
Nice work. I hope all of you will be encouraged to continue to speak out about this issue both in your local churches, in public and in private. It was for liberty that Christ set us free and the principles which the Apostle Paul gave us for finances require maturity and accountibilty to God, just as it should be in Christ for those who obey the law of love. A real Christian knows real ministry and understands that all we have is a gift from God. Ministers have a right to expect support from the Body but not the right to demand it and certainly not without accountibility. Where the Spirit of God is there is liberty!
Ministers have the right to expect suffering. The best ministers like missionarys, expect the most suffering. A real ministry is everything that Christ accomplishes in every Christian everyday.
If a minister expects payment from another minister for service to Christ is that not an implied demand. Christians should expect to give not expect to be served.
Christ came to serve an expected constant suffering. So should Christian leaders.
Just wanted to throw in something that I have seen anyone mention yet in regards to the tithe. For all that say tithing isn’t a New Testament practice, I beg to differ. In Hebrews 7:8, we are told that here on earth, men receive the tithe, but in Heaven, Jesus receives the tithe. The tithe continues to supply the natural earthly needs of the local church (enabling for ministry to take place: salaries, utilities, facilities, along with meeting needs of those in need) and yet is also credited to our account spiritually. It’s simply honoring God with what He has given us.
Chad,
There is nothing that says Jesus receives tithes in “heaven”. Most translation will translate it this way, “Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them”. the terms ‘here’ and ‘there’ are NOT referring to ‘earth’ and ‘heaven’.
There’s not doubt the Church has needs, but those needs should be met through Spirit-led giving.
I believe that since the Holy Spirit calls ministries, then the Holy Spirit is quite capable of calling others to support the ministry. If the Holy Spirit does not need assistance from the Old Testament to require ministers to lead, then the Holy Spirit does not need requirements through tithing to anoint others to support them.
2 Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you £will abide in Him.
- jared