I’m always curious to see what churches have on their tithing envelopes. There are all kinds of tithing envelopes. There are envelopes that you can color. There are ones that have bible trivia on it. There are even ones that share a bible story on it with a full color picture.
Tithing envelopes are created for all different age groups. Here’s a website that makes tithing envelopes from ages pre-k, all the way to adulthood.
There are two main elements to a tithing envelope. The first is the verse. Typically the verse is Proverbs 3:9 or Malachi 3:8-10. Sometimes the envelope has 1 Corinthians 16:2, but many churches don’t put that on there, because that eludes to freewill giving instead of tithing. The second element to tithing envelopes is the informational part. This is usually your name, address, date, and amount of gift. More detailed and complex tithing envelopes have check boxes that you can designate your gift to. Other tithing envelopes have a place where you can fill in your credit card information.
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Here is an example of a Tithe war
The tithe war between Christian schools and Churches.
Recently,My cousin has come to a tough decision to make. Send her kid to Christian school or tithe to her church and send her kid to public school. Remember school gets kids for over 6 hours a day X 18 years!!! Public school influence is stronger than telivision. It’s a no brainer for me because I am a freewill giver. Take care of the home first.
Ask an ordinary pastor about this issue. Can one cosider the amount one spends on Christian Schools as tithes? Most Christian pastors believe that the tithe “belongs to the local church” If people more were freewill givers then many more would send their kids to Chrisian schools.
My wife is the pricipal of a Christian school.
I am an African American who grew up in public schools and I deeply regret that there is not a widespread voucher program. I would move to a smaller house before I sent my kids to a public school. In my opinion public schools are anti-christan, evangelical, secular. They preach atheism and abortion are positive goods. Additonally, they preach that being a virgin before marriage is wrong and intolorant. Everyday they are getting worse
I do not consider giving to churches more worthy than giving to Christian schools or Christian entertainment.
Christan education begins in the home and the first giving should be to one’s family. Lot might have attended a godly religous service but he still lost his family.
Why send your money to another country to send thier kids to priviate Christian schools while your own kid is going to a school with the values of Sodom.
When christians send their kids to public schools they help to pay for the public school system which constitutes a hostile secular church against Jesus. If a large number of Christians home schooled or sent their kids to priviate school vouchers would quickly pass,and America would be dramatically changed. For millions of kids 6 hours a day X 18 years would belong to more Jesus education.
The tithe doctrines help to hold children away from Jesus education
Freewillgiver
Please send me a catalog for your tithing envelopes.
PO BOX 93
Gonzales, CA 93926
to free will giver….
scripture does not say give to the home first. what scripture teaches is to give of the ‘first fruits’ back to the Lord. all we receive belongs to the Lord anyway and as such we are to give back to Him.
I struggled to keep my son in a private Christian school as a single mom and I tithed in addition. One has nothing to do with the other.
Tithe is for the church & the work of the Lord.
Tuition is for the education of your children. BTWjust because you opt to put your child in a Christian school does not mean your tax dollars are not going to support the public school system.
Give with a cheerful heart.
Dear Pastors Wife,
Where does the bible say that we should our “first fruits” back to Lord?
I’m sorry, you won’t find it. It’s not in any New Testament teaching or doctrine and Jesus never implied it or taught it.
What you will find is an Old Testament Mosaic Law reference found in Ezekiel 44:28-30 which states, “The priests will not have any property or possession of land, for I alone am their special possession. Their food will come from the gifts and sacrifices brought to the Temple by the people—the grain offerings, the sin offerings, and the guilt offerings. Whatever anyone sets apart for the Lord will belong to the priests. The first of the ripe fruits and all the gifts brought to the Lord will go to the priests. The first samples of each grain harvest and the first of your flour must also be given to the priests so the Lord will bless your homes (NLT)”
See that? Preists, food, grain, flour, Temple, offerings? That’s Old Testament teaching!
Since we are not under the Mosaic Law, not Hebrew or an Israelite, then this reference was not meant for Gentiles in this age of grace and truth through Christ Jesus. we have a new High Priest, in Christ Jesus!
Hebrews 7:11-12, 18-19 “So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron? And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it.” “Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God.”
No offense inteneded, but you are obviously very ignorant of the origin of the tithe. The tithe was instituted for the Israelites in the Mosaic Law and it does not apply to New Testament Christian under faith in Christ.
You, like countless others, have been brainwashed for so many years about tithing that it has become truth to you. Adolph Hitler once stated that, “If you tell a lie loud enough and long enough, the people will begin to believe it.”
There are multiple verse in the NT that say that we (Christians in this age of grace and truth, led by the Holy Spirit) should not place ourselves under the Mosaic Law.
*Acts 13:39 “Everyone who believes in him is declared right with God—something the law of Moses could never do.”
*Romans 3:20 “For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.”
*Romans 3:21 “But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago.”
*Romans 3:28 “So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.”
*Romans 4:13 “Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith.”
*Romans 6:14 “Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.”
*Romans 9:31 “But the people of Israel, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded.”
*Romans 9:32 “Why not? Because they were trying to get right with God by keeping the law instead of by trusting in him. They stumbled over the great rock in their path.”
*Romans 10:3 “For they don’t understand God’s way of making people right with himself. Refusing to accept God’s way, they cling to their own way of getting right with God by trying to keep the law.”
*Romans 10:4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.”
*Galatians 2:16 “Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”
*Galatians 2:21 “I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.”
*Galatians 3:10 “But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”
*Galatians 3:13 “But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
*Galatians 3:21 “Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises? Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it.”
*Galatians 3:24 “Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith.”
*Galatians 5:4 “For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.”
*Galatians 5:18 “But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.”
*Hebrews 10:1 “The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship.”
*Romans 13:8 “Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law.”
*Romans 13:10 “Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law.”
*Galatians 5:14 “For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Written in love,
Marty
Pastors wife thank you for challenging me sister but I hope you have read what Marty posted and I hope you read my reply.
I cannot add much to what Marty already sad exept do you believe that all Christians are priest? If you do then Every Christian has their own ministries. If pastors can send their kids to Christian schools with money given by other Christians then sending one’s own children to Christian schools must be a ministry.
Christ in us
Hi All,
Wanted to ask if we can tithe a part in two different churches. Word says “bring in full tithes…” Does that mean I should give my tithes to only 1 church and cannot contribute equally to 2 different churches ?
Someone help me please.
Thanks in Advance.
Shweta
Shweta,
The Word also says that the tithe belongs to the levite, and that you should only give food or animals. According to the Word, money is not permitted as a tithe.
Bottom line is that tithing is not commanded for the new testament Church. God replaced the tithe with giving that is led by the Holy Spirit. Search the scriptures to see why tithing is not commanded for the new testament Church.
- jared
Shweta you are a minister and a priest you decide not any man made rule for Christians.
Friend you are free to give wherever Jesus gives your heart peace. Let each man set in his heart what he should give. You can give 10% of your money where you want but all of your money belongs to the ministry that Jesus gives to every Christian. There is no holy place exept for yoour secret prayer closet. You are always in the place of worship because Jesus is in you. Traditions make only some christians ministers. Remember Judas carried the money meant for the poor and talked about giving to the poor. Jesus said give to the poor not give to ministers to give to the poor. Give where Jesus tells you to give there are no percentage rules for Christians. Buildings are not Churches you are the minister and all Christians make up the Church.
You are far above a levite you are a priest and the levites paid tithes to the priest. If you are a priest then your job is to take care of the poor and needy. You have your own ministry to your family nieghbors and friends. Use your money best for the poor.
Tithes belonged to the Levites who were not given land inheritance by the law, the poor, and widows. Suffering patient people should be first to recieve Christian money.
Jesus said give to the poor. Missionaries like Jesus and the Apostles suffer greatly, Jesus said blessed are the poor in Spirit.
It is unfortunate to see many christians deny the veracity or the relevance of the word of God. First lets answer some of Marty’s questions which, being full of words and yes even bible verse are void of any understanding of truth
Jesus never spoke about tithes?
How about this:
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
(Mat 23:23 KJV)
This verse he clearly states that it wasn’t wrong for them to thithe but not to have left Justice, mercy….
undone. They had to tithe without forgetting the other things.
I know Marty, that just like the pharisees didn’t believe Jesus even after seeing with their own eyes what he was doing, so you too will not understand. So keep your money, God doesn’t need any penny of it. His is the world and everything in it. May God open your eyes that have been blinded by greed and the love of money.
sounddoctrine,
Jesus also said this in the same passage – “All therefore whatsoever they[pharisees] bid, you observe and do”
It’s interesting, how Jesus’ commands were to obey the observances of the pharisees. I’m sure you have overlooked this important detail in your analysis of Jesus’ words. It seems that you have been blinded by lies on what Jesus was really confirming in this passage.
- jared
Thanks everyone to help me understand about tithes in better way. God bless you..
It is amazing how the love of money makes someone totally twist the bible.
The verse you are quoting is:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
(Mat 23:3 KJV)
This verse re-affirms the tithe. If he was to abolish the tithe then he could have said don’t do it. But he didn’t because even though it was the pharisees saying it, it didn’t come from them it was of God.
When Jesus was asked about why his disciples didn’t wash their hands, he completely rejected it.
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(Mar 7:5-7 KJV)
Why did he reject it?
Because God didn’t establish it and he completely rejects it.
So steward, if you really are seeking for the truth, you will find it in the bible, if you are just looking for a way out of not giving tithes, just don’t do it. Keep your money, God doesn’t need it. Spend it on your christmass shopping.
sounddoctrine,
It’s just ignorance to assume that my stand against tithing is born through my love of money. If you wish to defame my character, i would assume you know enough about me to prove your claim. But that’s not the case. . . so moving on . . .
Of course Matt 23 re-affirms the tithe; but for whom? For those who sit under Moses’ seat (Matthew 23:2). Jesus also affirms that the tithe consists of food and not money. You cannot use Jesus words as evidence to support tithing and ignore the evidence that tithing only came from food, and that Jesus was living in the period that was still under the law. let’s look at the whole passage, not just a portion of it.
– jared
shweta:
I saw that you had a question about tithing to two churches. Your dilemma is one that is answered even before it begins. There should never be a question as to which church gets your tithe because you should never be in two churches at the same time.
The sheep can only recognize the voice of one pastor. You should make a commitment to only one church. Many times things are taught differently and it may get you confused. Ask the Lord to which church you should belong to and then make the decision.
May God bless you, and I hope that you can discern truth from lies and give your tithe, you will not regret it.
Not so steward. It wasn’t only about food.
And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
(Lev 27:32 KJV)
It also included money
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
(Deu 14:22-26 KJV)
Hmmmm, I wonder what the priests did with the money!
When Jacob met the Lord after escaping from his brother
he said.
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
(Gen 28:22 KJV)
Was he under the Law?
And when Abraham gave his tithes to Melchisedec, was he under the law?
As far as your character I am not defaming it, but merely pointing out the obvious. The love of money makes people not want to tithe and to find a way out of it even by using the bible.
Are you really trying to say that animals are not food? – Even the passage in Deut. 14 (yeah the one that you copied above)”for OXEN, or for SHEEP . . .and thou shalt EAT there”
Deuteronomy 14 is granting the Israelites special permission to TEMPORARILY turn the tithe into money. Their journey to the feast of tabernacles with all of their crops and animals would have been long and burdensome. But it clearly states that you had to exchange it BACK into food because the tithe was commanded to be eaten.
You need to answer for yourself if Jacob and Abraham were under the law. My question is, if they were not under the law, then what were they under? Clearly not the grace and covenant of the new testament.
Historical records on tithing show it had been a pagan custom long before it was recorded as a Semitic custom. The ancient Egyptian and Babylonian empires both have records of a tithing tax. Interesting enough, if you study it, you will know that Abraham passed through the lands that requested a 10% tax off of the spoils of war.
Maybe that’s why Abraham gave 10% off the spoils of war, and gave nothing from his personal income.
I am well aware of the effects of the love of money. My request from me is to read my tithing testimony to understand my motives.
- jared
Peace and Grace to you all,
I have a question to all who beleive that pastors are allowed by God to receive tithes according to the Law of Moses? or ten percent of your income.
Do you think your pastor fully understands what God said to Arron in the book of (Numbers 18:1-3KJ)God instructed Arron and his sons plus the tribe of Levi exclusively to minister to the Lord in the sanctuary.God warned Arron that if anyone went near the vessels (Gentile or from diffrent tribe) of the sanctuary they will surely die.
This will shock you, Jesus is not allowed to receive tithes or operate as a priest according to what God said to Arron because Jesus was from the tribe of Judah.(Hebrews8:2-4KJ)Apostle Paul confirmed that in (Hebrews8:4)
That means if Jesus is not allowed,your pastor is not allowed too under any circumstances.No one is allowed to go back and try to revive the old law that enslaved the Jews just to meet your church budget or the pastors salary.
Please think about this, I am not against giving money to the church,or sowing your finances into the kingdom.This is a serious matter because God commanded Arron to make sure they follow his instuctions when they minister to him in the sanctuary very diligently or they will surely die.
Jesus blood that washed away all our sins does not change us into LEVITES or turn us into ARRON.We are still Gentiles saved by Grace not from obeying the law.For us to go back and try to practise the old tithing law we need to sow the veil that was torn when Jesus died and replace the Levitical priesthood and the sanctuary that was built with all the cleansing ceremonies God commanded Moses.
Its ridiculous,irresponsible,proud,and totally stupid to say the least. Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law, does not mean we can go back and choose which law to keep and which one to ignore according to what Arron and the tribe of Levi were instructed to follow.
Peace to you all
Sound doctrine my friend Merry Christmas, I pray you have the freedom fellowship with wine and laughter with other believers in Jesus. Jesus turned water into wine and this wine to the poor relates to the question of Christian tithes. I have about 20 questions of you I hope you answer some. I came to disbelieve in traditional money tithes doctrines because after reading Deuteronomy 14:21-29 I could not see how Christians giving 10% of their money was a command of Jesus for today. There seemed to be free will giving even in the law of Moses. On your questions of Church Sheppards I have this answer. The one pastor that the sheep can recognize is Jesus himself. Paul stated “follow me as I follow Christ”. The disciples and no Christian in the New Testament ever collected an expected 10% tithe of money. Martin Luther the great Protestant reformer arguing the priesthood of all believers was violently against the notion of Christian money tithing and so were most of the early Protestants. Did you know that The new doctrines of Christian tithing became the majority belief amongst Protestants only in the last 150 years? Dose the Church of 2010 need more leaders who expect money from their fellow priest? Why not have every priest believer in charge of their own giving to the lost and poor? Did you know the word pastor is only used once in the New Testament?
Please read Deuteronomy 14:20-29
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. 23And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always….26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thinehousehold, 2And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.
This is one of the longest sections in the bible on tithes if not the longest. Are you familiar with these verses and their implications on Christians today? Do you believe that all Christians are priest? Should leaders in Christ expect any monetary entitlements in the name of tithes when the Law of Moses gave leadership only expected food tithes? Is there a problem with 10% of income to local church expectations by Christian leaders?
Why have I heard dozens of messages on tithes but I never heard the beer tithe verse Deuteronomy 14:26 quoted in Churches that teach Christian tithing? How should we interpret this today with all believers in Christ being priest? If all Christians are priest is not tithing incompatible? Also were not the mandatory tithes of Moses always food? Even so the giver of tithes had control on how it was dispensed and the poor celebrated with wine and strong drink. Where are the beer celebrations in the Church of today? Even in the Law of Moses tithing made the poor happy because they did not have to pay but they received. Do the poor of today celebrate the notion of money tithing as taught by most evangelical Churches? I think this tithing verse speaks against current money tithe expecting leadership church structures and traditions. What do you think? Please expound on how to apply these verse of Deuteronomy 14 today. The Levites paid tithes to the priest and now all believers are priest so how can any Christian sin by not to giving 10% of their money to Christian leaders calling themselves pastors. Pastor Jesus lost heaven to die on a cross. Should not the best leaders in Christ should be willing to suffer the most?
Do you catch my drift in this long questioning post? Just Jesus my friend, not the ceremony and traditions that are called fellowship. If one can demand a tithe then one is above that person who must give. Is that Jesus kind of fellowship? Is not what is important friendly loving fellowship that helps and brings smiles to the poor. Jesus like giving makes leaders servants prone to suffer, not entitled to the money of others.
Christ in Us
Thank you Freewillgiver,
I beleive Apostle Paul answered this when he explain why certain pastors and christians want to collect or pay tithes, (1Timothy6:5AMP) teaches us that these people consider the gospel as a “MONEY MAKING BUSINESS”,thats why they will defend and refuse to examine the scriptures.
Why would Jesus warn us about money or riches and deceitfulness of it? Apostle Paul said those who grave to be rich fall into temptation and a snare.(1Timothy 6:9AMP)
Peace and Grace to you all
Well, it seems that the troops have rallied together under one banner. You are in great company steward
You know steward I know that no matter what I tell you, you still won’t believe. So there is no sense in arguing back a forth. You are not after truth, your whole theme is to “get the word out” that christians have been dupped. And that you and the clan are smarter and wiser than all of us put together. You are even smarter than your parents, you have found out what thousands upon thousands of christians throughout time weren’t able to find.
So go on, share your wisdom with other like-minded individuals.
At the judgement seat of Christ we will all find out who has been dupped.
that’s a classic response – “we’ll see who is right when we get to heaven”
lol
My friend, i do not take credit for the wisdom and truth exposed about tithing on this website. There are plenty of notable others in history who have exposed the truth prior to my existence. Here’s a list of historians and theologians who have disagreed with tithing. I know you’ll recognize most of them.
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id2.html
Merry Christmas Sound doctrine! Thats not the way I wanted to hear goodbye from you. I respect you for sharing the words of the Bible with us. We are one in Jesus.
Your tithing system is probably lighter than the Christian tithe or be in sin croud. Hopfully as a result of debating here and your study in the word you might teach tithing to others in a more gentle thoughful way. I am not a missonary to Africa like saint.
I am a very flawed man who is often greedy in the flesh. Lord Jesus thank you for salvation. Anti-tithing dose not make people saints. Buddhist, Muslims Jehovah’s Witnesses and Alcoholics Anonymous do not believe in Christian tithing.However Jesus is the message. We just think that Christian tithing is not what Jesus commands for his Church.
I am sorry I made my post before I saw that you were quoting the Beer tithe verse. After my post I saw that you were well read. Most Christians have never heard of Deuteronomy 14:26. Sound doctrine please teach others how Christians of today should eat their tithes and what that means to all Christians.
Can we too consume our wine and strong drink in a feast before the lord? I do not believe in tithes but I do drink beer in the name of Jesus sparingly when my wife permits me to do so. The next beer I have after getting permission from her I might drink it praising Jesus and thinking of you. I am sure you have a more lenient view of Christian tithing than most because you cared to research and debate the scriptures.
Most folks who teach Church tithing are not that brave or understand enough to debate. Merry Christmas I hope you will teach what you truly believe. However if you now doubt the tithing system please alter your teaching. This position is not new as Jared has posed above Martin Luther the German Protestant reformer was very much against the concept of Christian tithing. The Quakers were and still are against Christian tithing. Some Jesus believing groups good and bad have the same beliefs that they reached from the scriptures. Many denominations and Bible schools teach the same including Churches of Christ the Easter Orthodox Church and the Billy Graham Evangelistic organization to name a few. Keep giving in Jesus name!
Merry Christmas Christ in Us
Well steward, you can lol all you want but this is true. The Judgement seat of Christ will define all things and we’ll see who is right. Unfortunately you are like the relatives of the rich man who died with Lazarus, you will not understand until such a time. Not even if people come back from the dead and tell you.
However, I will post this comment because you are probably thinking I have nothing else to say. I quoted many verses from the law to answer some of the questions and to clearly show you that what you were saying was not correct. Even so, you still take an erroneous road because it doesn’t bode well with your doctrine of no tithing.
I asked you the question earlier weather Abraham and Jacob were under the law and you quickly copped out.
“You need to answer for yourself”
Then you intimated that tithing had pagan origins, and therefore Abraham must have done it because he followed some paganistic ritual.
This is why I know you are not after the truth. Instead you want to maintain your doctrine. Jesus spoke of such people when he said.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
(Mat 23:24 KJV)
If you were after truth you should have scolded me for telling you to spend your money on christmass shopping but you didn’t. So you and freewillgiver don’t tithe yet you celebrate an idolatrous feast.
I hope your next post will be because you gave it some thought. I hope you think as to why did Abraham and Jacob tithe. If your answer doesn’t include any thoughts on that, I will confirm that you are not after truth, and you will be exposed.
My question back to you was whether you think Abraham and Jacob were under new covenant grace since you do not believe they were under the law. you only have 2 choices. Either they were under the law, or they are under new covenant grace. Which one is it?
Try to stay on the subject here. Let’s not get into side debates about who and why we should and should not be scolding for such and such. This is about tithing, not about my opportunity to scold one another about Christmas shopping.
We have no record in the bible that says Abraham and Jacob were required to tithe. As a matter of fact, Jacob’s vow proves that tithing is voluntary and not required, otherwise, he couldn’t have vowed something that was already required. Which brings me to the point, that if you believe that Jacob was not under the law when he voluntarily offered the tithe, then why must we adhere to Jacob’s vow when we’re not under the law either?
Abraham lived by faith not under the law. So too every believer must live by faith. Tithing was done even before the law. So you are right we are not under the rituals of the law we are free. However, we are still under a different law, the law of Christ.
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
(1Co 9:20-21 KJV)
Are we free to do as we please? NO. There are commandments for us as well. We have been freed from sin but we are now servants of Christ.
For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant.
(1Co 7:22 KJV)
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
(Rom 2:14-16 KJV)
Not all of the law has passed, otherwise the ten commandments would be gone, but they are not. Concerning tithes, we don’t tithe because it is the law, but because of faith. So yes, I understand that some have attached the curses of the law to it, but even this doesn’t make it invalid. You will notice that even though the Billy Graham association does not support tithing, Billy Graham himself does. Is it voluntary, YES. Is it according to the law, NO. Must we tithe, YES. Well if it is voluntary then why should we? Well the same reason you go to church, you take communion, you give offerings, you praise and worship. Nothing is out of force, it is all voluntary but is it required? YES. By law, NO but by faith. Are we to give so we can receive? NO. However, there are promises for the giver that we can not overlook.
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
(2Co 9:6-8 KJV)
Have some people used this for their own gain? of course they have. Does it make it invalid for the rest of us. No way. So do we give to receive? NO. But God will give us grace to do it.
If you look back to your younger days, was your parents pastor a rich person? Was he living lavishly with jets, and mansions, etc. I can almost guarantee the answer to be No. So, when people like your parents have financial problems. Is it because they didn’t tithe? But they did!
There is a misconception that unfortunately you took it to heart weather because it was taught that way or because you understood it this way.
If my parents tithe, why were they so bad economically?
There are good people who suffer, God allows it for some reason, that only the person and God understand. When Jesus encountered the blind man, this happened.
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
(Joh 9:1-3 KJV)
So finally, if you want to tithe, do it, if you don’t then don’t. I tell you what I told you at the beginning, God doesn’t need your money. His is the earth and everything in it.
God bless you steward, I hope you become a faithful servant!
if it is of the faith of Abraham that we should continue tithing, then it should be the faith of Abraham that we should continue circumcision.
Romans 4:11 “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe,…” (see also John 7:22)
Your statement here, “Are we free to do as we please? NO” contradicts the very verse you claim here, “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart”. Even in 2 Corinthians 8:8 in regards to giving, Paul states, “I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others”
The 10 commandments are valid because “thou shalt not murder” is born of hatred, and “thou shalt not steal” is born of greed. . . etc etc etc. Eternal laws within the 10 commandments, such as greed and hatred, are attributes that defy the character of God, and were established before the earth was even created.
It doesn’t take a Godly man to figure out that if more comes out of your pockets than goes into it, then your finances will be a wreck. The example of my parents in my testimony is to highlight that tithing does not provide a hedge of protection for poor stewards. In Matthew 25, it is the servant who returned 100% of his talents back to his master that was called, “wicked”. So considering that giving back 100% might contain wickedness, why do we spend any time at all trying to enforce 10%? This focus on achieving a precise law is what Jesus had fought hard against.
Here are some things to think about when you place the requirement of tithing upon anyone.
Abraham did not tithe from his overall wealth Hebrews 7:4
Israel gave less than 1% of their increase in spoils of war Numbers 31:9, 27-29
Jacob could not offer a tithe vow if it was already a requirement Genesis 28
A majority of Israelites didn’t tithe their occupational income Leviticus 27:30
Thank You Sounddoctrine,
Its always a blessing to read or listent to a mature christian walking in revelation knowledge.
May Gods favour and Grace rest on you.
Ahhhh, Steward, Steward, Steward, I will tell you what Peter told Simon.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
(Act 8:21-22 KJV)
It has come to this, just like I said all along, the love of money!
It doesn’t take a Godly man! It doesn’t take a Godly man!!!!
Of course it does, but now I understand why you can’t tithe. The apostle Paul wrote:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:14 KJV)
I will continue this conversation knowing full well that nothing can change your mind, but for the sake of others who might stumble upon this blog who might benefit, and so
that you can be exposed as a false teacher. The apostle Paul wrote about this when he said.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(1Ti 4:1-2 KJV)
A Godly man would understand that 90% with the blessing of God will be more than 100% without it. A Godly man would understand that the parable of the talents is not about money but only a metaphor to show us that we should be actively working for the Lord. A Godly man would remember that Jesus fed thousands with a few fish and bread. But to a natural man, it is foolish to think that God will supply even when what goes out is more than what comes in. And you know why? Steward. Because a Godly many would have FAITH.
You have said repeatedly that we are not under the law, and I have agreed in part, and told you that it is by faith, yet now you want to go back to the law to tell me that they only tithed 1% and they didn’t tithe their occupational income.
In regards to circumcision, I tell you what Jesus told the Pharisees.
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
(Mat 22:29 KJV)
There is a circumcision for Gods’ people.
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:28-29 KJV)
Again, only a Godly, faithful man can understand these things.
sounddoctrine,
I can spit out a bunch of verses that make you sound like an evil person as well. Some good ones- calling the pharisees snakes, and vipers, hypocrites, devours of widow’s houses. Yep, all this for their legalistic tendencies to protect the their precious laws. We can sit here and spout out accusations and condemning verses all day at one another. Let’s stop finding time to talk about what’s wrong with me, because this is not about me. This is about finding the truth in scripture about tithing. If you want to continue this debate and keep your focus on attacking me, believe me, you will find many character flaws.
I’m telling you that Israel gave less than 1% of their increase of the spoils of war, because your stand is that it is required for us to give 10% of our increase. If you are to provide proof that tithing is required today, you have to prove that these demands are consistent throughout scripture. and they are not. As i stated before- Israel only gave 1% of their increase of spoils – Jacob couldn’t have made a tithing vow if it was already required – Abraham did not tithe from his overall wealth – A majority of israelites did not tithe on their occupational income
Sounddoctrin, from what you have stated..I do not think you recommend good stewardship of God’s money. Also, you are quick to condemn and judging others. One should tithe (or offer) to God out of free-will, cheerful heart & thankfulness; for or what He has done. Actually for a Christian, 100% of our money belongs to God. So if one is not tithing, without His heart condemning him/her, God is not going to condemn. Love, Hope and Faith are greater than thith in judgment seat. If I were you, I would shy away from scaring people of using God’s judgment – I do not want to be a Job’s friend!
Also, regarding giving to two different churches or organizations – it is Ok for one to give as a good steward of God’s money. A church ought to use the money for 4 primary functions..according to old test. (but not all modern day churches do these functions) (1) feed the tribe of Levi and the priests of Aaron, (2)feed the prophets, (3)feed the Hebrew widows and orphans living within the city, and (4) feed the widows and orphans of the Gentiles who were living in and around the Hebrew city. So in my opinion..if the Holy Spirit leads one to give to other churches who are you to condemn it…Praise the Lord!!!
Friends Sound doctrine and Al
1. Martin luther of Germany and the early leaders of the Reformation were against Christian tithing. They argued that we are all priest. Are all Christians priest? What do you think of their if all Christians are priest no tithing is possible for Christians today arguments?
2. let everyone set in their hearts what they should give. Why call Christian giving tithing when there is no percentage or place to give? Why not call Christian giving what the New testement calls Christian giving? Do you believe that today Christians can give where ever the lord directs their hearts and What ever percentage?
3. This is a multi part Question and the hardest for those arguing a required Christian Tithe. First why is Duteronomy 14 scriptures mostly avoided in most 10% money tithe teaching churches. I think it sounds too free. Please Either one of you how do we apply the beer tithe scripture concepts for Christians today?
take the money and buy what your soul lusteth after wine or strong drink to eat and rejoice in the Lord Deuteronomy 14:26
Do you believe that Christians can have more freedom with thier giving to the lord that the Jews?3b. Please either of you explain how Commanded food tithes from Jewish land owners to the poor including the land poor levites, which made them drink beer and wine if they wanted now becomes 10% expected money tithes to Christian leaders expecting the tithes for their proffessional money jobs.
4.The levites were never Given by Moses 10% of anyones money in the Old testement so Why can Christian leaders expect 10% money tithes today?
5 finally Al and Sounddoctrine
You two seem so close to being anti 10% tithing so point blank make your doctrines Clear on money tithing. If a Christian gives less than 10% to their local church are they in Sin? What do you say of Preachers who make people feel this way.
Happy new year friends mabey you will tackle the issues of Deuteronomy 14:26 including the beer tithe questions. Duteronomy 14 scriptures so avoided by preachers that they helped me find Christian freedom in giving to Jesus.
Christ in Us
Peace to you all,
Dear friends we are blessed in Christ who set us free.
If we are truly free in Gods grace we then can discern our lives and the lives of others according to the scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit.
For those who insist to keep the law of tithing or tithe 10% of your income,I do not judge you or condemm you.Spiritual growth and lack of revelation knowledge can be the cause.
It is not easy to help good christians understand the truth on tithing, because many self appointed pastors and teachers are deceiving them to give them their hard earned money and call it “advancing the kingdom”
or “putting God first”.
These pastors will fight you or even ask you to leave their churches if you ask them to explain tithing in the new covenant.They have no scriptures to support their beliefs,other than falsely misquote scriptures to finance their selfish agendas.
Dear christians God loves you unconditionaly,that means wether you give Him 10% or 90% of your income does not change His love for you and me.Its based on His Grace only.
Please understand this, God can not be manipulated or influenced like a normal person.
Paul taught us how to give our money to support Gods work through the leading of the Holy Spirit (2Corinthian 8:11-12NLT) Paul clearly says to “GIVE WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD”,and verse 12 says “WHATEVER YOU GIVE IS ACCEPTABLE”.Please,if you do not understand those verses then we have nothing in common.
Tithing law that God gave the Jews in the old covenant was compulsory.If you do not obey the law, YOU WILL BE CURSED (Malachi3:8),(Numbers 18:3)
Please see the diffrence between giving UNDER THE LAW and giving UNDER GRACE.
GRACE=(2Corithians 8:11-12NLT) and
LAW=(Malachi 3:8),(Numbers 18:3NKJ)
May Gods Peace and Grace rest on you.
Sorry Friends,
The verse I quoted in Malachi was wrong It was suppose to be (Malachi 3:8-9)
Steward
Am I attacking your character by exposing your false teachings?
The bible says that out of the heart speaks the mouth. You are what you teach.
Very well. Let me go back to what I told you before, because it seems that you are not understanding at all and you keep bringing me to the law.
Abraham tithed (10%) of what he earned through the war. Right, there is no law here, no commandment, this is voluntary completely, right?
OK.
Jacob made a vow to also tithe following Abraham’s footsteps which although the bible doesn’t say, he probably learned from Isaac. There is no law here, no commandment, nothing, zilch. Only a voluntary commitment, right? but keep in mind it is voluntary but Just like Abraham and I am sure Isaac it is 10%.
OK
When we study the Bible we realize that Jesus did NOT take away the tithing as we have confirmed in the scriptures (Mat 23:23 KJV). He did remove some other things and changed others.
For God’s people today, we have something that is bigger and better than the old covenant.
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(Heb 8:6 KJV)
This covenant is borne out of FAITH. There is no written law, no sacrifices, etc.
However, there are principles, there are commandments, and there are examples.
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
(1Co 10:11 KJV)
When it comes to how much to give, we have NOT a commandment but an example. Since we are not under the law, we refer back to the father of FAITH. What was the Example? 10%
Of everything you gain. No law, no commandment, no sacrifice, no curse. Etc. So if it is not a requirement then why do it? Because we have an example of someone just like us, who lived as we should not under the Law but by faith who gave 10%. Are we to give 10% yes, only if you have faith. Because..
…for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
(Rom 14:23 KJV)
So then can you give 4% Nope, because the example is 10%. So if you want to tithe then it is 10%, not 5,7, or 3%. Is it required by Law, NO. Is it required by FAITH yes. Whose FAITH? mine and yours not by the preachers faith.
This is not to be confused with your offerings. So what is the tithe for? For the maintenance of the preachers. YES much to your dislike to maintain the preachers. This is why the Apostle Paul said.
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
(1Co 9:7-14 KJV)
Hmmm, sounds like Paul is using the law and comparing the preachers of the Gospel to those Levites, Hmmm…I wonder!
It is the people in the church’s responsibility to maintain the preacher and his family.
Now I hope, that in your next blog you don’t bring me back to the law, because nothing I’ve told you refers to it, except what Paul said.
No, you are a false teacher.
No, i am.
No, you are.
It’s unproductive, get the point?
Back to the “issue”.
If you wish to use examples, then look at the truth of the examples you see in scripture.
Example #1: Don’t tithe on all your possessions Hebrews 7:4
As i stated, Abraham gave only from the spoils of war, so if you do the math, he gave less than 10% from ALL he had at the time.
Example/Command 2: Give less than 1% of your increase Numbers 31:9, 27-29
Israel gave less than 1% of their spoils of war.
Example/Command 3: Not everyone has to tithe Leviticus 27:30-32
Most of the Israelites did not tithe on their occupational income.
Example 4: is a NON-example
You do not see any examples of the early Church giving a specific tithe under the New Covenant.
Example 5: we can attach our own requirements before we tithe Genesis 28
Jacob had a set of requirements that he conjured up on his own that he wanted God to meet before he honored his vow.
There is no way you can look at all the sporadic examples of tithing in the Old Testament and assume any kind of formula for the NT. In each example you use to support the requirement of tithing, there is nothing in there that is even remotely consistent. Abraham gave less than 10%, Israel gave 1% from the war spoils, Not all the Israelites tithed on their occupational increase. Here are 3 examples, with 2 out of 3 that are based on commands as well. There is not a single common denominator that you can extract from these examples and commands to enact a general rule today. If we were suppose to mold all these various commands and examples into one, then where did we receive our instructions on doing this?
Soundoctrine and Al thank you for more clarity. I hope you both had much bread and wine like myself, in your communions during the New year celebrations.
Soundoctrine I am sure that you are better informed by debating your position on money tithing in this electronic fellowship than most evangelical preachers in the U.S. However we disagree vastly concerning giving freedoms. Are not all priest in Jesus responcible enough to control the money given to the poor and lost in Jesus name?
Al , Praise Jesus ! You do not teach that Christians must pay fellowships lead by preachers 10% or be in sin. Brother Al please keep teaching against required Christian money tithing as taught in most evangelical denominations.
Soundoctrine seems to support the common doctrines of money tithing taught by most U.S. Evangelical preachers. Sorry Al for misunderstanding your position. In the New Year I pray Jesus will give me more clarity of thought.
Soundoctrine, It seems you believe that Christians must give ten percent of their money to their local churches lead by preachers to support those preachers. Am I clear on this?
Soundoctrine have you ever been a professional preacher paid through money tithes? I once was myself. I am glad you came right out and stated that the ten percent is for support of preachers. Most debating for required money tithes sidesteps this issue. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Do you believe that all Christians are preist?
Soundoctrine I want to see how liberal your required money tithe beliefs are in comparison to many money tithe or sin teaching denominations. What are your views on Priestly Christian giving freedom?
What about the beer tithe my friend Deuteronomy 14:26 where the people of the Old Testament had some control where their tithes were spent?
Do you believe that Christians must give their 10% cash to a fellowships lead by head preachers? Could Christians give money directly to the poor, missionaries, Christian schools, give money to destitute family members or spend money as Christmas presents in the name of Jesus to unsaved people and that still be a money tithe fulfilling Christian giving requirements?
Under what circumstances is Priestly Christian giving a tithe in your book Soundoctrine? I believe all giving of Christians is holy when it is in the name of Jesus. In many churches the answer is when the giving is in control of the local head preacher that is when it becomes the required 10% money tithe?
Soundoctrine are you more liberal than most money tithe preaching U.S. preachers? Please explain friend when you have time. I think that when All Christians meditate that they are all priest in Jesus , the money that they have can be more creatively given to Jesus.
Christ in US.
I haven’t been able to post due to time limitations.
I am a software engineer.
Steward I need your explanation of the following verses because I don’t understand how you are interpreting them.
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
(Heb 7:4 KJV)
^
|
This proves he gave 10% of his gains.
And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
(Num 31:27-28 KJV)
^
|
This was a special levy that God commanded Israel in this particular war because you don’t find it done again in other wars. This is not the tithe.
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
(Lev 27:30-32 KJV)
What do you mean by this verse that not everyone had to tithe?
Can you tell me steward what does Paul mean by the verses I quoted previously that say
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
(1Co 9:7-14 KJV)
Now, freewillgiver seems to think that we are all priests and indeed we are, however, there were hierarchies within the priesthood. Not all of the priests served at the altar. Paul is using the LAW to say that just like in the law those who served at the altar had a RIGHT to take from the altar so do the preachers today. Can you tell me steward how do you interpret this?
In your opinion how to preachers make their living?
sounddoctrine,
There was no command to give 10% of their increase off of anything besides what the land and animals produced. This means that carpenters, bankers, lawyers, blacksmiths etc. . . did not give a cent from their occupational income. If they did not raise any animals, or grow any crops on the side, then they didn’t tithe anything.
The poor did not possess any land or animals, so they were exempt from tithing as well.
Lev 27 is clear that the tithe was on the land and animals. Jesus also confirms this when he condones the pharisees for their tithe of their crops in Matthew 23.
- jared
Sound doctrine thank you so much. I believe the first should be last the greatest leaders in Christ should most resemble the lowliest of servants. To be great learn to be the servant of all. That is how the best preaches in Christ should make a living. “Though he were a son yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered he became the author of our eternal salvation.” Preachers should make a living by suffering the opposite of earthly prosperity. Jesus kind of love = loss of the things of this world. Do you agree? The Levites lived off of food tithes and were mentioned in the same sentence as widows the fatherless and the landless poor. Today many preachers expect 10% of other priest money. Many send their kids to Christian schools and colleges while the people they expect 10% money tithes from cannot afford to send their kids to Christian schools and colleges. Most evangelical missionaries in the U.S. do not collect money tithes.
A Christian leader should not be a comfortable job because it was not in the New Testament in my opinion. Priests are equal but the best priests who give the most those should be the leaders. Many churches met in homes and the leadership of the early church was hard core Spartan individuals. The wealthy opened their homes and their overhead was low because Christian leaders did not expect to be the winners of society. Early church leaders expected hardship and loss. They were not comfortable. I am not against pries giving money to other priest. I am mealy against one priest claiming they are entitled to 10% of priest money. Sound doctrine the priest of the Old Testament could demand their food tithes from the Levites. Preachers should all be missionaries.
The priests were exempt from food tithes. If all Christians are priest then there cannot be a 10% money tithe to other priest called preachers? Every priest can and should give to other priest in need. But what is need? Haiti is in need right now. Priest leaders should be men of suffering like Jesus and Paul. Preachers should all give mostly to the poor.
Make a living? Preachers should mostly get second jobs, save money like missionaries beforehand and expect to live as one of the poorer members of society. Jesus seemed to live very Spartan sleeping outside. All the disciples were persecuted by a cruel Roman government. Make a living? Christ is our life and Christian leaders should expect things to be hardest for them on earth. The first shall be last. Christian leadership is loosing by persecution or giving everything away. Jesus lost, Paul lost so that the gospel was spread. The best missionaries do this everyday. Preachers should expect very little money.
Christian leaders should be storing up the most treasures in heaven, for where your treasure is so is ones heart also. Christian leaders should be the most giving, suffering and the least comfortable. Do you agree sound doctrine? Suffering leaders are the kind that other priest has the least problems giving to because a Jesus kind of leadership will not expect to be entitled to other priest money. Paul writer of most of the New Testament lived in a third world environment with more poverty than Haiti. He went to prisons that would seem like a concentration camp. Paul was a tent maker/evangelist apostle. Paul preached part time. Make a living in the suffering of Christ, I am trying to learn this. Duteronomy 14:26 giving should make the poorest the most happy and priest should have the most control over where to spend their money.
Christ in Us! Thank you Sound doctrine friend.