A Christian leader should not be a comfortable job because it was not in the New Testament in my opinion. Priests are equal but the best priests who give the most those should be the leaders. Many churches met in homes and the leadership of the early church was hard core Spartan individuals. The wealthy opened their homes and their overhead was low because Christian leaders did not expect to be the winners of society. Early church leaders expected hardship and loss. They were not comfortable. I am not against pries giving money to other priest. I am mealy against one priest claiming they are entitled to 10% of priest money. Sound doctrine the priest of the Old Testament could demand their food tithes from the Levites. Preachers should all be missionaries.

The priests were exempt from food tithes. If all Christians are priest then there cannot be a 10% money tithe to other priest called preachers? Every priest can and should give to other priest in need. But what is need? Haiti is in need right now. Priest leaders should be men of suffering like Jesus and Paul. Preachers should all give mostly to the poor.

Make a living? Preachers should mostly get second jobs, save money like missionaries beforehand and expect to live as one of the poorer members of society. Jesus seemed to live very Spartan sleeping outside. All the disciples were persecuted by a cruel Roman government. Make a living? Christ is our life and Christian leaders should expect things to be hardest for them on earth. The first shall be last. Christian leadership is loosing by persecution or giving everything away. Jesus lost, Paul lost so that the gospel was spread. The best missionaries do this everyday. Preachers should expect very little money.

Christian leaders should be storing up the most treasures in heaven, for where your treasure is so is ones heart also. Christian leaders should be the most giving, suffering and the least comfortable. Do you agree sound doctrine? Suffering leaders are the kind that other priest has the least problems giving to because a Jesus kind of leadership will not expect to be entitled to other priest money. Paul writer of most of the New Testament lived in a third world environment with more poverty than Haiti. He went to prisons that would seem like a concentration camp. Paul was a tent maker/evangelist apostle. Paul preached part time. Make a living in the suffering of Christ, I am trying to learn this. Duteronomy 14:26 giving should make the poorest the most happy and priest should have the most control over where to spend their money.
Christ in Us! Thank you Sound doctrine friend.

The poor did not possess any land or animals, so they were exempt from tithing as well.

Lev 27 is clear that the tithe was on the land and animals. Jesus also confirms this when he condones the pharisees for their tithe of their crops in Matthew 23.

- jared

I am a software engineer.

Steward I need your explanation of the following verses because I don’t understand how you are interpreting them.

Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
(Heb 7:4 KJV)

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This proves he gave 10% of his gains.

And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
(Num 31:27-28 KJV)

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This was a special levy that God commanded Israel in this particular war because you don’t find it done again in other wars. This is not the tithe.

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
(Lev 27:30-32 KJV)

What do you mean by this verse that not everyone had to tithe?

Can you tell me steward what does Paul mean by the verses I quoted previously that say

Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
(1Co 9:7-14 KJV)

Now, freewillgiver seems to think that we are all priests and indeed we are, however, there were hierarchies within the priesthood. Not all of the priests served at the altar. Paul is using the LAW to say that just like in the law those who served at the altar had a RIGHT to take from the altar so do the preachers today. Can you tell me steward how do you interpret this?

In your opinion how to preachers make their living?

Soundoctrine I am sure that you are better informed by debating your position on money tithing in this electronic fellowship than most evangelical preachers in the U.S. However we disagree vastly concerning giving freedoms. Are not all priest in Jesus responcible enough to control the money given to the poor and lost in Jesus name?

Al , Praise Jesus ! You do not teach that Christians must pay fellowships lead by preachers 10% or be in sin. Brother Al please keep teaching against required Christian money tithing as taught in most evangelical denominations.

Soundoctrine seems to support the common doctrines of money tithing taught by most U.S. Evangelical preachers. Sorry Al for misunderstanding your position. In the New Year I pray Jesus will give me more clarity of thought.

Soundoctrine, It seems you believe that Christians must give ten percent of their money to their local churches lead by preachers to support those preachers. Am I clear on this?

Soundoctrine have you ever been a professional preacher paid through money tithes? I once was myself. I am glad you came right out and stated that the ten percent is for support of preachers. Most debating for required money tithes sidesteps this issue. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Do you believe that all Christians are preist?
Soundoctrine I want to see how liberal your required money tithe beliefs are in comparison to many money tithe or sin teaching denominations. What are your views on Priestly Christian giving freedom?
What about the beer tithe my friend Deuteronomy 14:26 where the people of the Old Testament had some control where their tithes were spent?

Do you believe that Christians must give their 10% cash to a fellowships lead by head preachers? Could Christians give money directly to the poor, missionaries, Christian schools, give money to destitute family members or spend money as Christmas presents in the name of Jesus to unsaved people and that still be a money tithe fulfilling Christian giving requirements?

Under what circumstances is Priestly Christian giving a tithe in your book Soundoctrine? I believe all giving of Christians is holy when it is in the name of Jesus. In many churches the answer is when the giving is in control of the local head preacher that is when it becomes the required 10% money tithe?

Soundoctrine are you more liberal than most money tithe preaching U.S. preachers? Please explain friend when you have time. I think that when All Christians meditate that they are all priest in Jesus , the money that they have can be more creatively given to Jesus.

Christ in US.

It’s unproductive, get the point?

Back to the “issue”.
If you wish to use examples, then look at the truth of the examples you see in scripture.

Example #1: Don’t tithe on all your possessions Hebrews 7:4
As i stated, Abraham gave only from the spoils of war, so if you do the math, he gave less than 10% from ALL he had at the time.

Example/Command 2: Give less than 1% of your increase Numbers 31:9, 27-29
Israel gave less than 1% of their spoils of war.

Example/Command 3: Not everyone has to tithe Leviticus 27:30-32
Most of the Israelites did not tithe on their occupational income.

Example 4: is a NON-example
You do not see any examples of the early Church giving a specific tithe under the New Covenant.

Example 5: we can attach our own requirements before we tithe Genesis 28
Jacob had a set of requirements that he conjured up on his own that he wanted God to meet before he honored his vow.

There is no way you can look at all the sporadic examples of tithing in the Old Testament and assume any kind of formula for the NT. In each example you use to support the requirement of tithing, there is nothing in there that is even remotely consistent. Abraham gave less than 10%, Israel gave 1% from the war spoils, Not all the Israelites tithed on their occupational increase. Here are 3 examples, with 2 out of 3 that are based on commands as well. There is not a single common denominator that you can extract from these examples and commands to enact a general rule today. If we were suppose to mold all these various commands and examples into one, then where did we receive our instructions on doing this?

Am I attacking your character by exposing your false teachings?

The bible says that out of the heart speaks the mouth. You are what you teach.

Very well. Let me go back to what I told you before, because it seems that you are not understanding at all and you keep bringing me to the law.

Abraham tithed (10%) of what he earned through the war. Right, there is no law here, no commandment, this is voluntary completely, right?
OK.

Jacob made a vow to also tithe following Abraham’s footsteps which although the bible doesn’t say, he probably learned from Isaac. There is no law here, no commandment, nothing, zilch. Only a voluntary commitment, right? but keep in mind it is voluntary but Just like Abraham and I am sure Isaac it is 10%.
OK

When we study the Bible we realize that Jesus did NOT take away the tithing as we have confirmed in the scriptures (Mat 23:23 KJV). He did remove some other things and changed others.

For God’s people today, we have something that is bigger and better than the old covenant.

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(Heb 8:6 KJV)

This covenant is borne out of FAITH. There is no written law, no sacrifices, etc.

However, there are principles, there are commandments, and there are examples.

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
(1Co 10:11 KJV)

When it comes to how much to give, we have NOT a commandment but an example. Since we are not under the law, we refer back to the father of FAITH. What was the Example? 10%
Of everything you gain. No law, no commandment, no sacrifice, no curse. Etc. So if it is not a requirement then why do it? Because we have an example of someone just like us, who lived as we should not under the Law but by faith who gave 10%. Are we to give 10% yes, only if you have faith. Because..

…for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
(Rom 14:23 KJV)

So then can you give 4% Nope, because the example is 10%. So if you want to tithe then it is 10%, not 5,7, or 3%. Is it required by Law, NO. Is it required by FAITH yes. Whose FAITH? mine and yours not by the preachers faith.

This is not to be confused with your offerings. So what is the tithe for? For the maintenance of the preachers. YES much to your dislike to maintain the preachers. This is why the Apostle Paul said.

Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
(1Co 9:7-14 KJV)

Hmmm, sounds like Paul is using the law and comparing the preachers of the Gospel to those Levites, Hmmm…I wonder!

It is the people in the church’s responsibility to maintain the preacher and his family.

Now I hope, that in your next blog you don’t bring me back to the law, because nothing I’ve told you refers to it, except what Paul said.

The verse I quoted in Malachi was wrong It was suppose to be (Malachi 3:8-9)

Dear friends we are blessed in Christ who set us free.

If we are truly free in Gods grace we then can discern our lives and the lives of others according to the scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit.

For those who insist to keep the law of tithing or tithe 10% of your income,I do not judge you or condemm you.Spiritual growth and lack of revelation knowledge can be the cause.

It is not easy to help good christians understand the truth on tithing, because many self appointed pastors and teachers are deceiving them to give them their hard earned money and call it “advancing the kingdom”
or “putting God first”.

These pastors will fight you or even ask you to leave their churches if you ask them to explain tithing in the new covenant.They have no scriptures to support their beliefs,other than falsely misquote scriptures to finance their selfish agendas.

Dear christians God loves you unconditionaly,that means wether you give Him 10% or 90% of your income does not change His love for you and me.Its based on His Grace only.

Please understand this, God can not be manipulated or influenced like a normal person.

Paul taught us how to give our money to support Gods work through the leading of the Holy Spirit (2Corinthian 8:11-12NLT) Paul clearly says to “GIVE WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD”,and verse 12 says “WHATEVER YOU GIVE IS ACCEPTABLE”.Please,if you do not understand those verses then we have nothing in common.

Tithing law that God gave the Jews in the old covenant was compulsory.If you do not obey the law, YOU WILL BE CURSED (Malachi3:8),(Numbers 18:3)

Please see the diffrence between giving UNDER THE LAW and giving UNDER GRACE.

GRACE=(2Corithians 8:11-12NLT) and

LAW=(Malachi 3:8),(Numbers 18:3NKJ)

May Gods Peace and Grace rest on you.

2. let everyone set in their hearts what they should give. Why call Christian giving tithing when there is no percentage or place to give? Why not call Christian giving what the New testement calls Christian giving? Do you believe that today Christians can give where ever the lord directs their hearts and What ever percentage?

3. This is a multi part Question and the hardest for those arguing a required Christian Tithe. First why is Duteronomy 14 scriptures mostly avoided in most 10% money tithe teaching churches. I think it sounds too free. Please Either one of you how do we apply the beer tithe scripture concepts for Christians today?

take the money and buy what your soul lusteth after wine or strong drink to eat and rejoice in the Lord Deuteronomy 14:26

Do you believe that Christians can have more freedom with thier giving to the lord that the Jews?3b. Please either of you explain how Commanded food tithes from Jewish land owners to the poor including the land poor levites, which made them drink beer and wine if they wanted now becomes 10% expected money tithes to Christian leaders expecting the tithes for their proffessional money jobs.

4.The levites were never Given by Moses 10% of anyones money in the Old testement so Why can Christian leaders expect 10% money tithes today?

5 finally Al and Sounddoctrine
You two seem so close to being anti 10% tithing so point blank make your doctrines Clear on money tithing. If a Christian gives less than 10% to their local church are they in Sin? What do you say of Preachers who make people feel this way.

Happy new year friends mabey you will tackle the issues of Deuteronomy 14:26 including the beer tithe questions. Duteronomy 14 scriptures so avoided by preachers that they helped me find Christian freedom in giving to Jesus.

Christ in Us

Also, regarding giving to two different churches or organizations – it is Ok for one to give as a good steward of God’s money. A church ought to use the money for 4 primary functions..according to old test. (but not all modern day churches do these functions) (1) feed the tribe of Levi and the priests of Aaron, (2)feed the prophets, (3)feed the Hebrew widows and orphans living within the city, and (4) feed the widows and orphans of the Gentiles who were living in and around the Hebrew city. So in my opinion..if the Holy Spirit leads one to give to other churches who are you to condemn it…Praise the Lord!!!

I’m telling you that Israel gave less than 1% of their increase of the spoils of war, because your stand is that it is required for us to give 10% of our increase. If you are to provide proof that tithing is required today, you have to prove that these demands are consistent throughout scripture. and they are not. As i stated before- Israel only gave 1% of their increase of spoils – Jacob couldn’t have made a tithing vow if it was already required – Abraham did not tithe from his overall wealth – A majority of israelites did not tithe on their occupational income

Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
(Act 8:21-22 KJV)

It has come to this, just like I said all along, the love of money!

It doesn’t take a Godly man! It doesn’t take a Godly man!!!!

Of course it does, but now I understand why you can’t tithe. The apostle Paul wrote:

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:14 KJV)

I will continue this conversation knowing full well that nothing can change your mind, but for the sake of others who might stumble upon this blog who might benefit, and so
that you can be exposed as a false teacher. The apostle Paul wrote about this when he said.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(1Ti 4:1-2 KJV)

A Godly man would understand that 90% with the blessing of God will be more than 100% without it. A Godly man would understand that the parable of the talents is not about money but only a metaphor to show us that we should be actively working for the Lord. A Godly man would remember that Jesus fed thousands with a few fish and bread. But to a natural man, it is foolish to think that God will supply even when what goes out is more than what comes in. And you know why? Steward. Because a Godly many would have FAITH.

You have said repeatedly that we are not under the law, and I have agreed in part, and told you that it is by faith, yet now you want to go back to the law to tell me that they only tithed 1% and they didn’t tithe their occupational income.

In regards to circumcision, I tell you what Jesus told the Pharisees.

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
(Mat 22:29 KJV)

There is a circumcision for Gods’ people.

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:28-29 KJV)

Again, only a Godly, faithful man can understand these things.