Posts Tagged ‘finances’

Christian Financial Counselors V. Tithing

Tuesday, April 6th, 2010

I’m sitting here right now trying to think of a way to transition all the thoughts going through my mind, so this post might get a little bumpy and random. I have Google tithing alerts sent to my email every day. Whenever someone in the news or on their blog mentions tithing, i receive an email of a list of those websites. I try as best as i can to visit as many blogs and news sites as i can to place comments that refute tithing, and support Spirit led giving.

I am somewhat picky about the blogs i will comment on. I try to comment on blogs that seem to get a little more traffic because i don’t have much time to comment in the first place, and wish to share my thoughts with as many as possible. There are certain types of blog posts that i  usually do not write on regardless of their website traffic – and that is blogs that give personal and emotional testimonies about tithing.

Trying to reason with someone about their personal experiences with tithing is like trying to take a child away from a mother who has carried for nine months and has given birth. You cannot take those experiences and emotions away from people. They will take those emotions to their grave. The best thing i’ve found is to state a few verses to counter-balance their emotions, plant a few seeds in forms of questions, and then be on your way. Side note about internet debating – you have no personal rapport with anybody. They don’t know you, so you aren’t going to change their mind anyway.

History proves over and over that you cannot persecute or beat ‘faith’ out of anyone. It only makes them more stubborn, stronger, or turns them into martyrs. Many people believe tithing out of emotional faith, and not because of reason. This is one of the reasons why I try to stay away from the tedious, long, relentless banters towards any ‘opponent’. If you stay in an argument too long, both you and your opponent will be going around in circles while placing more and more bricks on each of your castle walls.

(So here’s one of those weird transitions :| ) This is going to seem awkward to say but we need to take these emotional experiences away from people. I first was thinking about all this when i was reading Dave Ramsey’s website. On there it had someone’s testimony about tithing and then getting out of debt. It made me think that when they’ve gotten out of debt and the emotional relief they felt was all attributed to tithing. Unfortunately, this is false advertising for tithing because Dave Ramsey is a financial counselor not a tithing counselor. People have to change their buying and saving habits in order to get out of debt.

Tithing never got anyone out of debt, and yet you hear of thousands of testimonies every year who attribute financial success to tithing advice from a financial counselor. You will always hear a testimony such as this – ‘We were in up to our necks in debt. We met with a Christian financial counselor. Someone challenged us to tithe. In one year we paid off $20,000 in credit card debt.’ Even hearing the story, we get so caught up in the astronomical achievement that we don’t even wonder what tithing even has to do with spending, credit cards, and materialism?

(another awkward transition) Since i want to take the focus of financial success stories away from tithing, here’s the bottom line -  I wish to support Christian financial counseling ministries that does not support tithing. We need stories that include financial success while people gave freely without tithing.

Your Help is Needed

All of this encouraged me to go on a practical but seemingly unrealistic journey to find a Christian Financial Counseling Ministry that does not support tithing. My search has almost come up empty, so i am going to ask all of you if you are familiar with a christian financial ministry that does not support tithing in their counseling plans. I was fortunate to accidentally come across http://www.providentplan.com/.  They provide great Christian Financial Counseling services, but we need to find as many others as possible.

Crown and Dave Ramsey are great counseling tools but they both support tithing in their financial counseling plans. I am looking for a company that provides similar services, but I want to partner with or promote a Christian financial organization that does not support tithing. If we are to eliminate the false teaching through tithing, we need to promote organizations that do not teach tithing in their financial foundations. We need to create Christian financial success stories that show tithing is not a magical formula that gets you out of debt.

If we do not support the ministries that teach the right thing, then Dave Ramsey and Crown will still pump out people who will be permanently rooted in the tithing doctrine. If we can get people to see that it is sound financial principles that creates good stewardship, then there will be less and less work for us to do in the long run. We have to get people at the roots. Crown and Ramsey’s converts makes their pupils into tithers for life.

If we can all band together and promote a third financial ministry, one day it may turn out to be a huge competitor to crown and ramsey. This will be a great way to get the truth about tithing out there.Yes, I think my vision is somewhat idealistic, but we’ve gotta be realistic that every one that ramsey and crown covert to tithing will be near impossible to change back.

THE GOAL: Find financial counseling ministries that do not teach tithing and post them in your comments. I would like to compile a list of all these organizations in a blog post.

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There’s Something About Benjamin

Monday, April 13th, 2009

i thought this was pretty clever.

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Have Debt? Start Tithing

Friday, February 20th, 2009

Oh yes, another example of someone getting out of debt by tithing. Read the story here “CBN.com“.  I have to be careful here, because i do believe God honors faith, as well as sacrificial giving, which means that i believe giving 10% isn’t the only way to receive blessing. According to the story, apparently, a couple has paid of $125,000 worth of debt since they started tithing. I do not doubt that God’s blessing is upon them, i just wish people do not think that tithing is the magical bullet for their lives.

For every tithing success story, you could probably find  an equal story where an individual is tithing and getting in even more debt then before. In my tithing testimony you will read that my own family suffered the consequences of debt, and legalistic tithing. People don’t understand that God blesses the sacrifice not the animal. So it isn’t because this couple reached the 10% benchmark, that God decided to finally bless them. It’s the sacrifice that they made that God blessed.

I’m not preaching another form of the health/wealth gospel here. God’s word says he blesses faith. I couldn’t tell you the form that your blessing will come in, or even if it is now or in eternity, but God does reward faith, not that personal gain is why you should give.

Many more have gotten out of debt, through practical stewardship principles rather than waiting for the windows of heaven to open up. Typically, money doesn’t fall from the sky. Usually, financial planning is the key to financial success. There are no tricks to being wealthy, or even financially stable. There is only planning, and implementing.

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Global Rich List

Thursday, October 16th, 2008

Want to put your wealth into perspective? Well, here’s a website to help you. Type in your income per year, and see where you rank in the world for your wealth. This website has a donate button, please be careful about donating through websites that you know nothing about.

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God Before Mortgage

Monday, September 22nd, 2008

Here’s a news article written by Nick Carey that i read on Reuters. The title is, “For many U.S. Christians, it’s God before mortgage”. I have quoted and commented on certain portions of this news article below.

While millions may lose their homes during the worst housing slump since the Great Depression, some devout Christians among them will do so in part because they will not give up tithing. . .

you will find some people for whom obedience to God comes second to none, . . . For those people, a contract with God is worth more than their home

Milton Sharp, a home ownership specialist at NeighborWorks, an umbrella group of 230 nonprofits, said for many borrowers tithing is “mandatory and not a discretionary item that can be cut.

Granted, people have been poor stewards of their finances, and have made bad decisions to get into homes that was a risk for them to afford later on. But to say that your contract with God carries more spiritual weight than your contract on earth is ridiculous. Remember the context of the quote, “give unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s”? Here is the passage:

Luke 20
Then they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth: Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”

But He perceived their craftiness, and said to them, “Why do you test Me? Show Me a denarius. Whose image and inscription does it have?”

They answered and said, “Caesar’s.”

And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

The answer is that giving to God is not more important than paying your taxes. Your purpose on earth is just as much pay your bills as it is to give to your church. People get mixed up when they think that God is asking for a denarius, or the dollar, or the yen or the euro. Sure, we give money to the poor, to our church, or to hurricane victims; but money is not what God is seeking. Unfortunately, thousands/millions of tithers are caught in the mindset that God is one big tax collecter sitting up in heaven counting the pennies that you owe Him. It makes me wonder about the order of wording in that passage. Notice Jesus says first, “render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s”. I don’t know. I’m not a greek buff, but if Jesus did state it in that order, i wonder if He had a reason to state “give to caeser” first.

“Often it’s the folks who can least afford it who tithe,” said Regina Grant of the Atlanta Cooperative Development Corp.

Isn’t this an interesting statistic. I don’t understand it really. These people are tithing and are expecting the windows of heaven to open. Obviously, the windows aren’t opening, but they are still tithing. I admire their faith, sincerity and boldness towards the promises of the tithe.

This reminds me of my tithing testimony. My parents had 8 children, and my father was basically the only one working. He had a blue collar job, and was sending all the kids to a private school. My parents were faithfully tithing every week, but let me tell you, the bills and credit cards were piling up. We were the least that could afford to tithe, but yet we were tithing. My parents believed in the promises and curses of the tithe. They were suckered into this mystical Old Testament curse, and did not adhere to basic stewardship principles. You cannot be in debt and afford to give. You cannot serve two masters. You cannot be a slave to debt and expect to serve other causes with your giving also.

“I made an agreement with the Lord 30 years ago and I have tithed ever since,” said the woman, who declined to give her name in an interview. “Nothing could persuade me to give that up. My relationship with God comes first.”

All these twisted lies of the tithe. I’ve heard many say that the tithe confirms our relationship with God. Somehow, by tithing we are declaring God over our lives. As if the tithe was the literal cross of the Christian life. I guess it is true, the tithe is the literal cross of many misled Christians. Unfortunately, we don’t think Jesus paid the price and fulfilled all the old laws, so we feel that we have continue carrying the burden of the old testament on our shoulders. There are burdens that we have to bear in the New Testament, but the tithe is not one of them. We are to take care of the needs, help the poor, and supply for the saints. Sacrificial giving is important and commanded, but 10% minimum requirement is not a command for the Spirit led Church.

People really believe that God will be happy if they tithe even though they can’t pay their bills. Why would God be happy that you defame his name through financial negligence? In one of Jesus’ parables in Matthew 25, He tells how God would despise the servant who gives 100% back, if we act upon poor stewardship principles. God will not reward you because you sacrificed your house. God is not smiling just because you are faithfully tithing. In fact he may punish you because of your poor stewardship.

Even if your house and mortgage was a financial mistake, paying your mortgage is one of the most spiritual decisions you can ever make. There is no spiritual difference in writing a check to your church or writing a check to your bank. Just because your check goes to a church does not sanctify your poor stewardship.

In closing, Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s. In financial hardship, the easy way out is to simplify what Jesus said and exclude Caesar. But Jesus didn’t insert the clause, “in case of financial hardship, only give to God”.

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Why is God So Selfish?

Monday, June 2nd, 2008

Why is God So selfish?

Why is God’s request a need
But my own, a want indeed?
Why must God’s house be so fancy
But my house should not be much to see?

Why should I give to God’s missionary
When my own city is cold and hungry?
Why should I find God by going to church
As if God wanted me, but didn’t search?

Why does a man of God drive a brand new car
As I drive my clunker that does not get very far?
Why should your music program be so hot
But my stereo system be so not?

Why is God so selfish and unkind
What about healing the sick and the blind?
Why is God’s money used for investments
But for me, it is the root of disobedience?

Why does God need a coffee shop
And I have to wait at the bus stop?
Why is a mission trip a huge cost
But our own neighbors are still lost?

Why must God have padded pews
And the poor walk with holey shoes?
Why does God have a tall steeple
But seems to reject the lowly people?

Why does God pass the offering plate
And pass by the widow standing at the gate?
Why does God need elegant pipe organs
But only muse about the orphans?

So why is God so selfish?

© Copyright 2008

http://churchtithesandofferings.com/

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My Tithing Testimony

Wednesday, May 21st, 2008

Bible opened up

I haven’t done so officially yet, but i was just thinking the other day about writing a testimony about how i came to my conclusion about tithing. I guess what prompted this was when i had mentioned to someone that i used to tithe. They asked me what reasons did i switch my views on tithing and if it had anything to do with the abuse of money in the church. Typically people ask questions like that because they wanted to see if my tithing stand was born out of ill conceit. Most people think that if your opposition sprouted from rebellion then they think that your argument is not legitimate. I’m sure there are many people out there today that believe in Spirit-led giving because they questioned abuse in the church. I’m sure some of them are still rebellious and bitter about it. But let’s not throw out the truths that we find even though they are found in the doubting moments of the church.

My tithing testimony doesn’t include a rebellious foundation. I grew up in a church that was very good with money. We had no debt, and we had great outreach. We didn’t have the bells and whistles, like coffee shops and stage lighting like most seeker sensitive churches, but we still had more than what we needed. I remember the church going into debt only once because the school needed classrooms. It was a facility that cost only 1 million dollars and was well worth the cost for the students of a complete high school and church to constantly use.

So anyways back to my testimony, i got my first job at 16 at an ice cream shop. My very first paycheck i tithed on. I tithed from then all the way through the end of college. I didn’t question it. My parents had tithed all their lives and so i would as well. I really didn’t even know what verses that tithing was commanded from, but i tithed anyways. I am glad that i gave all that money, and there are no regrets there. The only thing i regret to tell you about my tithing testimony is that i was living by a law and i didn’t know why. It was automatic.

There’s been some controversy today about ATM tithing and automated debits for your offering. People are afraid that since the money is not physically placed in an offering plate that we will be out of tune with the heart of giving. But with how tithing is automated today, what difference does it make if you blindly press a button on the internet, or you just blindly sign a check? If there is no spiritual interaction involved it doesn’t matter if you have automatic withdrawals or you place cold hard cash in a gold offering plate as it passes by.

Let me tell you that one of the hardest things for me was to tithe my income when i was paying my way through college. Most people have it harder than i did, but i paid for my own gas, insurance, vehicle, entertainment, tuition, and books. My parents gave me a place to stay and eat for free, but they didn’t give me anything extra. Over one summer i had three jobs and was working about 70 hours a week. Regardless of how hard i worked i still had to take out some loans. Luckily it was only about 1 years worth of school debt

I mentioned that my parents had tithed all their lives, but let me just reassure you that God didn’t throw money out of the sky at our family. We probably just barely made it. I could honestly tell you that my parents probably had more credit cards than i actually get in offers in a year. They were extremely in debt! And managed to steal my credit and get me in debt as well, but that’s beside the point. The point i want to bring up is actually a question. Let’s say that my parents gave only 4% to the church, but were excellent in their finances and paid all their bills on time? How would God judge them? Of course they did the opposite, but what do you think God judges more severely – not tithing or getting in debt? Hmmm, good question, but that’s not how God judges our stewardship. You see God doesn’t have a checklist of requirements that we need to meet before we’ve become acceptable to him. Remember the steward that was left in charge of 2 talents while his master was gone? He buried the talents and when his master returned, he gave 100% of the talents back. A good steward is an investor, not a giver, not a bill payer, not a returner.

This is essentially what i did with my money. I was a giver, not an investor. An investor is Spirit-led, but a giver follows directions from a dead law.

So as i was saying about my tithing testimony in college. At the end of college i became involved in a fellowship that challenged and fed me. We did lots of ministry together. One day a friend confronted us about tithing. He said that tithing is not required of New Testament Christians. I immediately argued with him. Of course i didn’t agree. I couldn’t have been wrong all these years. After all, tithing is commanded in the bible, right? After that i began to search the scriptures to prove him wrong. The more and more i studied, the more and more, i couldn’t prove him wrong. It was the craziest thing! I kept going over and over scriptures. I kept questioning my reasoning. There’s just no way that this much of the church has been wrong for so long about tithing. Then it hit me. What was the number one thing that Jesus talked about in the bible? It wasn’t heaven, hell, hatred, the tongue, lying, or satan. It was money.

Outside of the Holy Spirit and the Word, money is the most powerful and influential substance known to mankind. If there is anything that the church can be wrong about, it’s gotta be about money.

So i’ve been heavily studying and discussing tithing since 2005. I started a tithing website, started this blog, and started a tithing group in order to get the word out. Hopefully one day, i will write a book.

I cannot tell you the amount of growing and learning that God has given me over the past years. I wish i could just take a portion of my heart, soul, and mind and let you see the truths that God has spoken to me about Spirit-led giving. My passion on this subject is what keeps me writing about it so much. If this truth was not so alive in me i wouldn’t be able to write as much as i do. Right now, i believe there are over 180 blog articles that have been written here since 2006. Each day there are about 245 unique visitors, 3280 hits, and 175 google searches. That is another thing that keeps me motivated about this site. I know people are searching for the truth.

I am convinced to my grave that Spirit-led giving is what God intended for his Children under the New Covenant. Would i remain open to a new evidence that tithing is required for us, well, sure! I have listened to hundreds of sermons, and read dozens of books on tithing, so i’m not sure that much of anything new is out there to reveal, but an open mind is there, believe it or not. I hope my tithing testimony encourages some. Please share your testimony as well. It will encourage me and others.

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Investigating Televangelist Finances

Saturday, February 16th, 2008

Televangelists under a microscope

I’m sure these slimy little weasels have covered their tracks with their finances. I mean they have enough money to hide anything. Here is the article on US News. US News stated that these “religious” organizations complaint is two-fold, “that the IRS, not Congress, is the proper body to investigate tax matters related to religious groups, and that the focus on members of the Prosperity movement is discriminatory and threatens their First Amendment rights.”

What makes them think that their luxurious lifestyles doesn’t send up a red flag? They are just plain foolish in their logic. Who should congress be discriminatory of? Maybe they should investigate the poor old ladies that have devoted their life savings to these organizations. These poor old ladies don’t get investigated cause they don’t flaunt their stuff! Who should congress pick on if these money raking fools can’t take the heat? I guess congress should just pick ministries out of their black hat that they should investigate. Oh yeah, i guess that goes the same way with everything. We should just pull names out of a hat when we investigate the steroid problem in baseball. Of course Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco, and Mark McGuire are gonna get investigated, for the simple fact that they turned into big huge monsters and their batting numbers showed it.

So deal with the discrimination, dollar, hinn, meyers, and copeland cause the rest of the world does!

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