Posts Tagged ‘debate’

Bible Verses: Should Christians Debate?

Monday, August 16th, 2010

I had someone write an email to me about why we Christians should have no reason to debate the word of God. The irony of it is it’s ok, to debate about whether we should debate?

Here are a few bible verses that i picked up on a small study on whether Christians should debate. I could use more bible verses, so if you wish, post more verses on debating in the comments, and i will add them here.

Acts 18:28
For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

1 Peter3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Philippians 1:17
But the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.

Proverbs 25:9
Debate your case with your neighbor, And do not disclose the secret to another;

Acts 19:8-10
And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.
But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.
And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

Top Ignorant Statements About Tithing

Tuesday, August 4th, 2009

ignorant and clueless people

This list of ignorant statements about tithing are listed here because they are the cream of the crop when it comes to oblivious arguments. Every time i hear these statements i either roll my eyes to the back of my brain or i shake my head in disbelief about how shallow their brain must be. I know my mood seems uncaring and sarcastic, well, that’s probably because it is. Sorry, it’s been a rough couple weeks. So, onward we go into the barren, thoughtless, and ignorant statements about tithing.

  1. You don’t pray about tithing, you do it
    Who can recall the countless times i’ve come across this statement. This argument pretty much stems off the mentality, “God said it, and that settles it”. I could understand if we skipped the whole prayer thing if we were talking about murder, adultery, or stealing; but curiosity should arise when we realize that God is present, but i don’t need to pray because all i need to know is in this little black book. After all, it says “Holy” on the front, so it must answer all my questions.

    Who needs a God that is able to communicate? There are many other religions out there that pray to idols who can’t speak to them. For some reason, i don’t think God is made of wood or stone.

  2. Tithing acknowledges that God owns it All
    STOP! Think about that: Does giving 10% mean you are giving 100%? Notice how they always say that tithing “acknowledges”. They know it doesn’t bring fulfillment, or completion to stewardship. It’s because they know if we aren’t committed 100% to God, then 10% means nothing. It is very possible that many people have tithed without acknowledging that the other 90% belongs to Him as well.

    We’re in a bit of a quandary here. Is it tithing that acknowledges God owns it all, or it is a circumcised and sacrificial heart that acknowledges God owns it all. Which is it?

  3. Freewill givers do not give as much as tithers
    I am sure that is probably true, but truth is not based on success or results. Let’s take Islam for example. Right now, it is the fastest growing religion in the world, so does that make Islam right and Christianity wrong? I’m even sure many more Muslims are ready to die for their faith than Christians are.(shout out to Achmed the dead terrorist!)

    One of the reasons tithers follow through with their commitment to give more is because they place themselves under a storm cloud that will strike them with a curse if they disobey. Even though God directly says, “you are no longer under a curse”, tithers still think that God didn’t mean he removed the curse about tithing also.

  4. All scripture is profitable
    If i could define ignorance in one of these arguments listed here, well this is it. This is one of those responses i get when people think i’m just trying to throw out the whole Bible whenever i say that the tithe is no longer valid. Forget the fact that they don’t believe in the Sabbath on Saturday, animal sacrifices, or even clean meats for the same reasons i don’t believe in tithing.

    This is how it usually goes: I basically tell them that the tithe is no longer commanded, and they basically say, “How dare you throw out God’s Word”. Then comes either one of the two statements: ‘all scripture is profitable’ or ‘i did not come to abolish, but to fulfill’. Why should i even bother asking them why they don’t fulfill the sabbath?. . . sigh. . .

  5. God never Changes
    This kind of goes along with #4 . . . as in why should i even bother asking them why God changed the sabbath, or the priesthood, or the temple. Debating with people over these tithing arguments is like arguing over an algebra equation with a 5 year old when they don’t even understand multiplication. If tithers just stop and think about what they are saying, then they would soon realize that if God never changes in the way that they are implying, then we would still stone our children.

    This is what i mean when i said ‘thoughtless’ at the beginning of the blog. These tithing arguments are just that – thoughtless.

  6. Where does the Bible say to stop tithing
    It doesn’t say, “stop tithing“. I believe there are over 600 some-odd old testament laws that we do not practice anymore. I would imagine if God took the time to rewrite a verse in the new testament commanding us to stop each law in the Old Testament, then our bible would be a few hundred pages longer.

    We are born again, adopted in God’s family, indwelled with God’s Spirit, and given a new covenant. On top of all this, the earthly priesthood was eliminated, the temple destroyed, and Judaism is not my religion, nor am i an Israelite; and yet, we find it hard to believe that tithing could have been replaced by Spirit led giving?After all the changes, i think we need to find where the bible says to continue tithing. Don’t you?

  7. Tithing is the starting point
    This philosophy is not even in the bible. First of all, first fruit offerings were given prior to the tithe, so tithes were not even given first. Second, tithes were only given from food and animals, and were not given from occupational income. So, there was no starting point for blacksmiths, lawyers, doctors, or carpenters.

    Here’s a little saying, that i’ve thought of all by myself (as you can see i’m boasting)
    Where should our giving begin?
    Where should our giving end?
    WHICH ONE SHOULD WE TEACH?

  8. Would you like God’s net or gross blessing?
    No, this is not necessarily an arguement used to defend tithing, but more or less used to persuade those who are tithing, to tithe more. First, this argument exposes the root of why tithing has such a hold on many lives. It is the promise of blessing and the fear of the curse. Who cares about gross or net blessing from God, you should want to do what’s right. Right is either right, and wrong is wrong. There is no gross right, or net wrong.

    The problem is that those, who are concerned if they should tithe on the gross, ask others who couldn’t give you a biblical answer. So the best thing to do is conjure up a catch phrase that seems to have wisdom embedded in it.

  9. How Much do you give?
    Ah yes, this question is their famous “gotcha” argument. They know that biblical reasoning will not win their argument so they resort to personal attacks because your character is all they have left to attack. I have to admit, this is a tricky one to respond to. First, they have no business investigating what you give. Second, if you happen to give less than a tithe of your income, they let you know, your works do not shine as bright as theirs. Last of all, if you do give above 10%, they will convince you that tithing is the minimum and your conscience knows it.

    This question is in the ignorant list because either they want to corner you; no, not on biblical truth, but on your performance; and also it is ignorant because anyone should know better than to determine scriptural truth based on the performance of mankind.

  10. We can’t rely on people to be Spirit-led
    This is an ignorant statement that tithers unfortunately believe, and yet ironically in the same sentence they believe the book of Acts is historically accurate. I don’t know, maybe they do believe the book of Acts was a fairy tale. What they are saying is that ‘i don’t trust that people can be Spirit led, but of course, the Christians in the book of Acts are the exception‘.

    With their ignorant statements, they don’t even realize that they deny the power that God has on his children.  They deny the blood of Christ, and they deny that any Christian can be sacrificial and liberal with their giving while being filled and led by the Spirit of God. What a shame, and what ignorance.

  11. How will the church stay open if we don’t tithe
    There are thousands of non-profit organizations that keep their doors open all year without demanding, or imposing a tithe of their freewill donors. What makes us think that an operation that is commissioned and overseen by God’s almighty hand would fare less than any of these non-profit organizations? Are you kidding me? is your faith that little?

    It might just be that you have seen your astronomical church budget, and it is in the millions! Yeah, you’re right, if there’s anything that God could struggle with is to continue paying for your worthless, under-performing, humanistic kingdom that does very little in out-reach but a lot of in-reach. In that case, you are right, we probably would see some church doors close. That’s the price you pay when God is in charge of financing his kingdom.

Now i’m looking for your input. But please, if you have anything to say, ignorance is not welcome.

6 Reasons to Debate Tithing

Wednesday, January 7th, 2009

Many have asked me, “why tithing”? Of all the things to study and debate, why have i chosen tithing? Right off the bat i don’t really know why the topic of tithing fires me up so much, so i found 5 good reasons to get fired up about the tithing debate.

The Love of Money is the Root of all Kinds of Evil

I almost said that money is the root of evil. I think i write that because my mind is always on autopilot. Money is not the root of all kinds of evil. The LOVE of money is. Sure, tithing is a good discipline to rid greed from those who are giving, but what about those who are receiving? There are many out there who are extorting God’s word for the gain of money. Many of you think about televangelists, but that’s just a few on TV. There are many more who desire more and more money to build more and more of their kingdom. Sure, many of them think that God gave them this vision to do this or that. Tithing allows them to build their own dreams and mandate others to pay for it. It’s not necessarily that they love money; they love what money can build.

Tithing in the New Testament Church is Against Scripture

Plain and simple and probably the most important factor that inspires my quest against tithing. I’m not going to spout out any scripture to prove tithing wrong. I’ve done plenty of that already in the past. I believe with all of my heart, that tithing is unbiblical. I do not have an ounce of doubt in my heart or mind about it. I wish i could take what i’ve learned and play it in a movie, or write it in a book. Words and pictures will not do justice to what the Spirit of God has enlightened in my heart.

Tithing Extorts the Poor and Excuses the Rich

I’ve seen churches investigate many members to figure out if they are tithing. If a rich man has been tithing, he is let go and forgot about. But if a poor man is not tithing, and needs help or assistance in paying his bills, the church will first investigate his finances to see if he tithed. If he did, then they will check his spending records and make sure he isn’t spending too much on other things.

The church will try everything to get out of helping this poor man. They will show how he can spend less here and there, and yet still ask him to pay his tithes. They think no one has an excuse not to tithe. They don’t even realize that in scripture it was the poor who received tithes. What about the rich, why pick on them? They paid their tithes, didn’t they? Is a tithe really what God expects of them or is that what WE are expecting from them? Tithing is unjust and unfair.

Jesus Talked about Money More than any other Subject

Obviously nothing has more of a hold on people than money does. If Jesus talked about it so much than it must be crucial. I’m not a financial guru. I flunked accounting in highschool. But i do know that the flow of money going in and out of the church should be a much discussed topic. Disagree? Don’t mark my words, look at Jesus’. He talked about it more than sin, heaven, and hell.

Giving statistics stated that religious organizations brought in 103 billion dollars last year. We have done very little with the 103 billion dollars and we complain that we could do more if only more tithed. It is calculated that we spend 85% of what we take in on ourselves. As a matter of fact only 3% goes towards ministering to the needs of the unsaved. No wonder the world thinks the Church is greedy. It’s not because we are constantly asking for money. it’s because we keep it all to ourselves.

This is besides the point. How the Church receives it’s funds is important. If tithing is in place then people are not free to give to other places that God is leading them to give. Instead people are handcuffed to an organization that spends more and more on themselves.

Tithing Challenges me to Study God’s Word

I will admit, i’m not the encourager or exalter in the group. I like to dissect things with my mind and find solutions to fix the problems. If i see a problem i will speak up. I won’t if everything is going right, i just expect it to. I’m very opinionated, and debates really fuel my fire. I love them. Am i contentious. Sometimes, yes. I try to work on that. I don’t like to pick fights for no reason. But i love a good challenge. There is nothing biblically wrong with wanting to debate God’s word. Your motives must be pure, and you have to be extra careful about how your attitude shows Christ.

Everyone has their methods to help them get fired about God. For some, it’s to look for those who need emotional help. Others, it’s to look for a those who need some teaching. It’s all different for all of us. We are all wired different ways. I’d like to say that the greatest Christian is the one who is most balanced, but more than likely that Christian doesn’t fit in many places. We are different members with different things that drive our motivation. If we are the hands, then doing things with our hands motivates us. If we are the head, then using our thinking or leadership skills motivates us. We are all driven by different things.

So many People are Believing the Wrong Thing

This just hurts to see the number of people who are believing the wrong thing. I’m on a quest to help as many as i can to see the truth in God’s Word. If there was no one to convince, then i probably wouldn’t get into tithing. But it’s a challenge for me, and there are many who need help, and do not know the truth. At one time i didn’t know the truth. You can read about it in my tithing testimony. It is great to hear testimonies from those who have been freed by the teachings of God’s word about tithing. I do not want to diminish the fact of giving sacrificially, but at the same time, people are locked up in chains and need to be freed from the tithing mandate first in order to truly understand sacrificial giving.

A Spirit-led Response to Tithing

Wednesday, April 30th, 2008

In my many discussions about debates about Tithing, if the debate lasts long enough eventually this question always pops up, “Since you don’t believe in tithing, how much do you give under grace? Is it more than the law or less?” This question is the most ignorant question i receive in the tithing debate. Typically this means that they’ve run out of arguments, or they are sick of repeating the accusation that i am throwing out the Old Testament. This is why i bring you 10 ways to respond when a tither wants to know how much you give, just because you are against tithing.

 

1. Grace givers could also ask the question about how many of the tithers are actually giving cheerfully and godly? My assumption would be that the percentage is lower than those that give gracefully.

2. What is the average that believing tithers give? According to statistics on barna.org, it doesn’t seem like tithers are giving what they should either.

3. Greed is not biased to those who practice grace giving. May I remind you that Israel fell to the cloak of greed while under the tithing law anyways.

4. The Mormon cult gives more than any religion or denomination but that doesn’t confirm their theology.

5. The steward in Matthew 25 who gave 100% of his 2 talents back to his master was still considered a bad steward.

6. It was only the Pharisees who were interested in shortcomings of others while expressing how they elegantly obeyed the OT requirements.

7. I’ll let God be the one to tell you what He’s received from me.

8. I give nine-and-a-half percent. (just to throw them off)

9. Most of the time I keep 0% of my income. God seems to find a use for all of it.

10. Is it common for you to base scriptural truth on the performance of mankind?