Posts Tagged ‘church’

Everybody in the Church Start Tithing

Monday, August 2nd, 2010

Another tithing rap. The lyrics to the rap are written below. I did as best i could with my dictation. If anyone can help with corrections or with the empty blanks, feel free to input it into the comments.

Not Tithing is very bad, but I got some ballin members though.

Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah. Everybody here with me.

One, here comes the  two, to the three, and the four.
Ushers passing plates down your row.
Baby keep your change cause I know you got more.
Turn her purse over, all the money on the floor.
Must be the hurt that I preach hard core,
or maybe that you can’t buy my sermon in the stores.
______sermon leave by the door.
I gotta get the game  on move out the door.

Don’t try to play me cause I aint the one.
The metal device will detect the  ______.
When you come to my church we have fun.
But if you don’t tithe player you better run.
I’m back in my study trying to count what was done.
Hold up lady where is she coming from?
She come talking about what her money done.
Change your attitude now cause you aint being nothing.

Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.

It’s true. If I keep preaching they stay I know it’s fine.
Now I’m seeing sleep when all my members tithe.
Some more days pass and now it’s almost Friday.
Now they talking about how much they hate their job.
Ya’ll need to work so you can pay God.
You gotta be the key that leaves husband and wife.
The fellowship hall has sweet potato pie.
I hope you all don’t think I’m a preacher all night.
If you all think that, then that’s a bunch of lies.

Here comes a member _______ down his shoes.
Cover that toe cause the little one is new.
Get your wallet out cause the sermon is  ________.
We have more than one collection, we got two.
Don’t get caught staring up at my at my jewels.
You gotta a nice step on my alligator shoes.
All my suit got matching shoes.

Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.

Alright, we gonna stand up and come down the center aisle. Ushers, if you can bring em from the back, bring them down to the center. Start it from the back.

Walk a Mile in These Shoes

Tuesday, June 15th, 2010

I felt it good to post a comment from a past blog and then write my response here.

Mac says:
06/15/2010

Wow, spoken out of true ignorance. Churches are not perfect, they are run by human beings, but i have seen … alot more good and grace and mercy come through the church than our government. Here’s food for thought for you all. You think preachers have it made? Well consider this. Because a church is tax exempt they do not pay income or social security taxes on preachers. That means it is the preacher’s responsibility to pay both the employer’s portion and their own portion. Also unlike you desk jockeys, a church does not pay into preacher’s social security so if a preacher becomes disabled they are pretty much screwed. Add on top of that the fact that many churches do not provide benefits, like health insurance, etc. Churches get no government assistance whatsoever, that means they are totally dependent on … you to give donations to pay their bills and pay the pastor, etc. But since you are more concerned with buying a Starbucks latte or an apple Ipad than supporting your local church, alot of churches have to shut their doors. Until you have walked a mile in someone’s shoes don’t assume you know anything at all. I hope you read this article author man, you make me completely sick.

Mac,
I am a self employed individual. Every day i wake up wondering why my next paycheck is going to come from. I wonder if God will provide me some business today, and on top of that worry about my competition (unlike a church). If i were to be disabled in any way, probably the only job i could get is at a church. I started my business with no income or contracts, with no customer base or initial converts.

I do not have a health, nor retirement plan. I pay full state and federal taxes on my sales and income (unlike a church), and also have to pay for social security for myself and as an employer.

Most of the people in my situation do not have the opportunity to plead at the pulpit for more support (unlike a pastor). If i need some sort of assistance, my church fellowship might provide some temporary relief, but in the end i have to get off my ass and find a job and work like the rest of the world. It’s an enlightening opportunity to actually be a full time servant of God amongst the rest of the world.

My wife and I own 2 cars over 10 years old, and have worked hard to pay them off. I have a silverado loaded with nothing(nope not even power windows), and a toyota camry with over 190,000 miles (praying that it will go to at least 250,000). I have a 32? old school box TV, and i do not pay for cable. I have 1000 sq ft home with 1 child now and 1 on the way.

I have worked for a church doing administrative work for about a year, and was let go because of budget cuts.

I say all this not for a pat on the back or some applause, because it really is not as hard as you or I make it sound. Mac, i’ve walked miles in these shoes. Did i blame my clients because they didn’t choose my services? Did i blame God during the hard times because i was frustrated? Did i get mad at people in the Church for not giving?

All-in-all Mac, i think you just need to calm down. I’ve never seen a man of God without his needs taken care of. Regardless if you are a pastor or you squeegee sewage all day; the common denominator it all boils down to with everyone is something called faith

I couldn’t agree more with your statement about the church and government. The church is where grace should be coming from. Instead most churches are willing to pass the torch off to our government. It’s ludicrous to watch the pulpit being used to make social demands from the government. It’s also bizarre to me that people expect to see Jesus more from our government than from our Church – just look at hurricane katrina.

There’s only one way to stop the insanity, and that’s to purify the church of greed and corruption. We’re not going to stop all this mess at the polls or at the next tea party rally. Political rally’s are just band-aids on gunshot wounds. It has to come from God’s people and within the family of God.

I do not apologize if the blog article offended you or if it seemed too radical. Once again, i didn’t write my experiences to play my trumpet. I could care less about what people think.

Malachi 3:3-4
He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem Will be pleasant to the LORD, As in the days of old, As in former years.

-  jared, author of the blog

Tithing Opponents Throughout History

Saturday, June 5th, 2010

I came across this information at http://russkellyphd.blogspot.com/. I haven’t verified all of this information, but this is a very extensive and powerful list of historical opponents of tithing.

Tithing opponents throughout the years as compiled by Dr. David Croteau, Liberty University, You Mean I Don’t Have to Tithe?, p271-292. www.slaveoftheword.blogspot.com/ See Footnotes for transcript evidence.

Clement of Rome 100
Didache 100
Justin Martyr 165
Tertullian 230
Origen 255
Cyprian 258
Waldenses 1150+-
Thomas Aquinas 1275
John Wycliff 1384
John Huss 1415
German Peasants 1520
Anabaptists 1525
Erasmus 1536
Otto Brumfels 1534
Martin Luther 1546
Philip Melanchthon 1560
Separatists Amsterdam 1603
John Smythe 1609 Baptist
John Robinson 1610
English Parliament 1650+-
Puritans & Plgrims Mass 1650+-
John Cotton 1652 Puritan
Roger Williams 1636 Baptist
Little Parliament 1653
Oliver Cromwell 1658
John Milton 1658 Puritan
Particular Baptists 1660
John Owen 1680 Baptist
Francis Turretin 1687
John Bunyan 1688 Baptist
Quakers 1768
John Gill 1771 Baptist
John Wesley 1791 (my site)
BAPTISTS IN AMERICA 1800s
Adam Clarke 1832 Baptist
Charles Buck 1833
J C Philpot 1835 Baptist
Charles H Spurgeon 1832 Baptist
Parsons Cooke 1850
Samuel Harris 1850
Edward A Lawrence 1850
John Peter Lange 1876
Henry William Clark 1891 Engllish
S H Kellogg 1891
G Campbell Morgan 1898 Congregational
Albert Vail 1913 Baptist
Frank Fox 1913
David MaConaughy 11918 Episcopal
William Pettingill 1932
John Harvey Grime 1934 Baptist
John T Mueller 1934 Lutheran
H E Dana 1937 Bapt Historian
R C H LENSKI 1946 Lutheran
Lewis Sperry Chafer 1948 DTS Foundeer
W E Vine 1949
James F Rand 1953
Francis Pieper 1953 Lutheran
Ray Stedman 1951
L L McR 1955 Catholic
Paul Leonard Stagg 1958 Baptist
Hiley H Ward 1958 Baptist
Roy T Cowles 1958
Elizabeth P Tilton 1958
R C Rein 1958 Lutheran
Robert A Baker 1959 Bapt Historian
Wick Bromall 1960
John Byron Evans 1960
Norman Tenpas 1967
James Edward Anderson 1967
Alfred Martin 1968
CHARLES C RYRIE 1969 DTS
Jerry Horner 1972 S Baptist
Pieter Verhoef 1974
Dennis Wretlind 1975
Jack J Peterson 1978 Pres
Donald Kraybill 1978
Jon Zens 1979 Baptist
Richard Cunningham 1979 S Bapt
Gary Frieson 1980
JOHN MACARTHUR 1982-2000
Paul Fink 1982
George Monroe Castillo 1982
Tony Badillo 1984
James M Boice 1986
Michael E Oliver 1986 Rest
W Clyde Tilley 1987
Scott Collier 1987
Ronald M Campbell 1987
R E O White 1988
William McDonald 1989
Charles Swindoll 1990 Dallas Seminary
Rhodes Thompson 1990
J VERNON MCGEE 1999
Jerome Smith 1992
CRAIG BLOMBERG 1993 Denver Seminary
J Duncan M Derrett 1993
Walter Kaiser Jr 1994 Gordon-Cromwell
Moises Silva 1994
Benny D Prince 1995
Brian K Morley 1996
Linda L Belleville 1996
Ron Rhodes 1997
Ernest L Martin 1997
Michael Webb 1998
R Johnston 1999
Mark Snoeberger 2000 Baptist
Stuart Murray 2000 Eng
George W Greene 2000
Old Line Primitive Baptists 2000
Jaime Cardinal Sin 2000 Cath Archbishop
RUSSELL EARL KELLY 2001 Baptist
Jonathan Kitchcart 2001
Frank Viola 2002
George Barna 2002
Michael Morrison 2002
Elliott Miller 2003
Matthew Narramore 2004
David Alan Black 2004 Baptist SEBTS
Andreas Kostenberger 2007 Baptist SEBTS
Danny Akin 2007 Baptist SEBTS
Mark Driscoll 2008
Roman Catholic Church
Jehovah’s Witnesses
New Worldwide Church of God

Tithing Sermons – Should or Shouldn’t?

Tuesday, June 1st, 2010

  1. Why you should: Your Church is broke.
    Why you shouldn’t: Your church will be more broke
    I understand that the utilities, rent, and honorable salaries need to be paid. But we need to learn to cut expenses. The “American Greed Dream” can’t creep into homes without it creeping into the Church.
  2. Why you should: Your pastor wants a new car
    Why you shouldn’t: Someone else needs a car more
    A little perspective goes a long way. Look at how others poorer than you live their lives and try to imagine your attitude under their circumstances. Determine your wants vs. needs.
  3. Why you should: Your Church wants a coffee shop
    Why you shouldn’t: Your coffee shop is only open 1 day a week
    A majority of Church buildings are largely under-utilized so let’s get smart about what were spending our money on.
  4. Why you should: You want a new building
    Why you shouldn’t: Can i remind you that were in a recession?
    I’m not saying that great sacrifices can’t be done during hard times, but let’s not forget that a recession means 10% unemployment, higher taxes, forecloses, and salary cuts. Let’s not forget that your biggest need might be to expand your walls, but, someone’s biggest need this week may be what they are going to give their kids for dinner. Once again, a little perspective.
  5. Why you should: You want to buy new drum set for the band
    Why you shouldn’t: Bongo’s are soooo much cheaper!
    This may be just my pet peeve, but I’m kind of getting tired of seeing 5 guitar players and a drummer on stage. Can’t anyone play anything else?
  6. Why you should: You want people to be blessed
    Why you shouldn’t:
    People will be cursed instead
    I’ve said it once, I’ve said it twice. . . Shoot! . . . I don’t know how many times I’ve said it, but tithing is an Old Testament law.
    Galatians 3:10 – “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse
  7. Why you should: It’s Stewardship month
    Why you shouldn’t: Why spend time talking about 10% of our money?
    Am i missing something here, or is there a reason why churches are concerned about the 10% that they get from you and spend very little time advising you on the other 90% that they aren’t getting from you? I’m wondering if they take the time to advise you on the 90, I’m sure there would be less problems collecting the 10. Like i said above it’s hard for greed to slip into the home without it slipping into the Church. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

How Churches Invest Their Money

Tuesday, May 18th, 2010

An interesting report came out on the 17th by Joshua Ritchie from Mint.com. It’s titled, “How Churches Invest Their Money”. Here’s my quick breakdown of the article

LDS – Church of the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons)

  • “current LDS assets totaled $30 billion”
  • “If LDS were a corporation, Time continued, its estimated $5.9 billion in annual revenues would have placed it midway through the Fortune 500.”
  • “Bonneville International Corporation, which controls over two dozen top radio stations across six states, is also wholly owned by LDS through Deseret Management Corporation, the church’s for-profit arm.”

RCC – Roman Catholic Church

  • “In 2005, MSNBC reported that the Roman Catholic Church owned more real estate globally than any other organization or individual on earth.”
  • “In 2001, an official report stated that the church’s real estate activities in fiscal year 2000 produced $81.7 billion in revenue on $51.8 billion in expenses: a nearly $30 billion profit.”
  • “The Boston Globe found that “contributions from worldwide dioceses” totaled $92.9 million in 2005, while individual donations made directly to the Pope neared $60 million.”
  • “In 2005, MSNBC’s Nanette Hansen even wondered if Pope Benedict XVI would “have to be a money manager as well as a spiritual leader.””

ELCA – Evangelical Lutheran Church

  • “In fiscal year 2009, the church claims to have earned $1,698,336 from “investment income”, $2,238,629 from “bequests and trusts” and another $1,003,420 in rental income. The same report lists a separate column of “temporarily restricted” revenues, on which another $1,625,000 in investment income is reported.”

The Church is a Spoiled Brat

Monday, March 29th, 2010

“If everyone in the Church gave 10% of their income, the Church would have an additional 50 billion a year to do missions, feed the poor, provide clean water and medical supplies, etcetera . . . etcetera . . . etcetera.”

Sound Familiar?

Why is it that every time you hear a challenge to tithe, you get slapped with the guilt that your current endowment efforts aren’t enough to give some clean water or even a band-aid? You begin to feel that as soon as everyone started giving a tithe, that we could solve the depravity of basic necessities in the world.

I wouldn’t dare question that we wouldn’t gain an additional 50 billion if we all tithed, but i do have to question if food, medical supplies, and clean water really would be administered with that 50 billion.

Why don’t we admit the truth – that if we gave 50 billion extra, we would spend the majority of it on ourselves for building projects, salaries, church events, and theatrics.

We don’t admit the truth because, the truth doesn’t guilt people as much as the lie does. Who could deny water, food, and shelter to anyone while i sit at home in my comfy house with central air, and a supermarket down the road? Seriously, what type of human being are you if could deny someone just the basic necessities for survival?

One thing you will never hear is that if all of us gave 10% of our income, the Church would actually spend about 80% of that 50 billion on internal operations.

“If only i had a little more money then i could tithe?”

Does that sound familiar? well that doesn’t sound too far from saying “If only we had 50 billion more, then we could . . .”. Can we say that the apple does not fall far from the tree?

Anyways, the point here is to expose the lie that frequently proceeds the tithing challenge. The truth is if we had 50 billion extra, we wouldn’t provide water, food or shelter. Let’s face it, our tendency has been to hoard it, so why would we change? In actuality, the Church takes in over 100 billion a year, but you won’t hear this number out of anyone’s mouth. The constant whine of what we don’t have as opposed to what we do have, is what i call a ‘Spoiled Brat’. Let’s not use crying babies and starving families as a ploy to get people to tithe unless our money is actually going towards them.

P.S. I don’t believe tithing is commanded anyway.

Cash Cult: Destiny Church

Thursday, March 4th, 2010

Check out this story.  A ‘church’ in brisbane requested the members to sign up for automatic payments of tithing to be debited out of their account. Yahoo news also stated that, “under the church’s covenant members were encouraged to buy a $300 signet ring, stop buying coffee and give up Sky TV so they could give more money to the church.”

Here’s another excerpt from the News Herald in New Zealand, “Followers were told to ignore people who told them they were too poor to give money to the church. ‘They’ll tell you and try to get you to believe you are too poor and that you have nothing to give. ‘What they’re trying to get you to do, do the opposite and you’ll always be on the right side [with God]. ‘ He spoke of opening up a ‘channel of giving’ to the ‘house of God’. ‘When they [followers] stop giving, the church is poor and it cannot fulfil its wonderful vision or its purpose for God.’

I think one the saddest parts is that they believe the people and the church are actually separate entities. Notice the leader said, ‘When “they” stop giving’ – as if who ‘they’ are and what the ‘church’ is are actually different things?

Stop Tithing for Lent

Monday, February 22nd, 2010

I know, it’s a little late to stop tithing for lent. But if you haven’t started stopping anything yet, then here’s your perfect opportunity to give up tithing for lent. Many churches have started the 90 day tithing challenge. Basically, it asks you to commit to tithe for 90 days, and by the end, if you are still struggling with your bills, then the church will refund your money. Note they didn’t tell you that they will want you to open up your checking account to them so that they can analyze that you’ve spent too much on vacations, parties, or entertainment.

So, I’m throwing out the stop tithing lent challenge. Give up tithing for the next few weeks before Good Friday. This is not a challenge to stop giving. This is a challenge to begin a journey of sacrificial, spirit led giving. By the end of this journey i want to see how blessed your life has been. By the end of lent, if you feel that Spirit led, freewill giving has devastated your spiritual life, then by all means, go back to tithing (No, i’m not gonna offer any refunds)