Comments on: Rich pastors not common, but not endangered http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/ A blog about stewardship, finances, and the tithing debate in the Church. Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:50:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: smh http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-2114 smh Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:30:20 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-2114 I think balance is needed in this area. No church should want its pastor looking run down and worse off than them. Jesus had all his needs met, even to the point of creating a miracle to feed 5000 people. So at no point, should a Pastor be poor to prove anything to anyone, none of the 12 were indigent...God took care of them. With that being said, anything that takes away from the Gospel's message and its spread, needs to be run from. Having a Jet and bragging about 10 cars when some people caught rides to church is insensitive and cruel. A pastor and his/her family should be well cared for. The only to stop some of this madness is for people to stop supporting those pastors who do go to far....remember Jesus when into the Temple and turned the tables over, saying that the House of Prayer had turned into a Den of Thieves! Balance I believe is the key to this issue. Having a nice car is not sinful, nor a nice home..and so many people are big Hypocrites! They will say all this and as soon as they get their hands on some money, they do some of the same things. Balance, Balance, Balance I think balance is needed in this area. No church should want its pastor looking run down and worse off than them. Jesus had all his needs met, even to the point of creating a miracle to feed 5000 people. So at no point, should a Pastor be poor to prove anything to anyone, none of the 12 were indigent…God took care of them. With that being said, anything that takes away from the Gospel’s message and its spread, needs to be run from. Having a Jet and bragging about 10 cars when some people caught rides to church is insensitive and cruel. A pastor and his/her family should be well cared for. The only to stop some of this madness is for people to stop supporting those pastors who do go to far….remember Jesus when into the Temple and turned the tables over, saying that the House of Prayer had turned into a Den of Thieves! Balance I believe is the key to this issue. Having a nice car is not sinful, nor a nice home..and so many people are big Hypocrites! They will say all this and as soon as they get their hands on some money, they do some of the same things. Balance, Balance, Balance

]]> By: Darling,MS http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-441 Darling,MS Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:47:57 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-441 I think that it's wrong as to left shoes for pastors to get rich off of the church to be using the members of the church that way.Get a real labor job and stop milking the Lords people. I think that it’s wrong as to left shoes for pastors to get rich off of the church to be using the members of the church that way.Get a real labor job and stop milking the Lords people.

]]> By: Daniella Marie http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-440 Daniella Marie Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:25:08 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-440 I don't think it's wrong in the least to use a portion of what the church has given them, because, the government does not support them and they do need to live just like everyone else needs to live. This is their "calling" so it's like anyone else with a job/career. Having a nice home/car are all fine and dandy, nobody would be cruel enough to begrudge them that. I do however draw the line when I see Preachers who own quite a few mansions, jet around in private jets and I'm not talking one jet, I'm talking a "few" more than necessary! They drive a Bentley/Rolls, have maids and when travelling, they stay in extremely expensive penthouses. I can go on, but time is "money" after all. I find it quite disgusting that they have church loads of people who tithe faithfully/cheerfully and they still struggle with bills, are barely hanging on, can't go on vacations, etc.... but mind you, they keep hearing to "hold on", it "will happen", just "give it time". Oh yes and this is classic. One time one of them was preaching "loud" and clear, to STILL tithe if you're ever on the streets, because you're honouring God. Oooook, people on the streets are living out of garbage cans, trying to stay out of harms way and living in card board boxes, I highly doubt they're going to be thinking of much more than the current situation they are in, which by the way, they were told it would never happen as long as they keep "tithing". I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. I just wish I was in a position, at this moment- I will be someday - to be able to help the homeless/less fortunate, the ones certain Preachers "seem" to neglect on their way to the Mercedes dealer. They can't preach one thing to people then give them something else a few months later which is in complete contradiction. That not only causes people to stumble, they also start to doubt and many lose faith. What does the bible teach about, not causing any of his little ones to stumble! When in a position of authority, one must speak properly, always making sure it's only GODS way and not just what they want to preach. On to a brighter note. As you had mentioned Pastor Rick Warren, J.C. Penney - the founder - did the exact same thing, 90% to the Lord and kept only 10% for himself and we all know how successful Penney's is :) I don’t think it’s wrong in the least to use a portion of what the church has given them, because, the government does not support them and they do need to live just like everyone else needs to live. This is their “calling” so it’s like anyone else with a job/career. Having a nice home/car are all fine and dandy, nobody would be cruel enough to begrudge them that. I do however draw the line when I see Preachers who own quite a few mansions, jet around in private jets and I’m not talking one jet, I’m talking a “few” more than necessary! They drive a Bentley/Rolls, have maids and when travelling, they stay in extremely expensive penthouses. I can go on, but time is “money” after all. I find it quite disgusting that they have church loads of people who tithe faithfully/cheerfully and they still struggle with bills, are barely hanging on, can’t go on vacations, etc…. but mind you, they keep hearing to “hold on”, it “will happen”, just “give it time”. Oh yes and this is classic. One time one of them was preaching “loud” and clear, to STILL tithe if you’re ever on the streets, because you’re honouring God. Oooook, people on the streets are living out of garbage cans, trying to stay out of harms way and living in card board boxes, I highly doubt they’re going to be thinking of much more than the current situation they are in, which by the way, they were told it would never happen as long as they keep “tithing”. I’m sure you see where I’m going with this. I just wish I was in a position, at this moment- I will be someday - to be able to help the homeless/less fortunate, the ones certain Preachers “seem” to neglect on their way to the Mercedes dealer. They can’t preach one thing to people then give them something else a few months later which is in complete contradiction. That not only causes people to stumble, they also start to doubt and many lose faith. What does the bible teach about, not causing any of his little ones to stumble! When in a position of authority, one must speak properly, always making sure it’s only GODS way and not just what they want to preach. On to a brighter note. As you had mentioned Pastor Rick Warren, J.C. Penney - the founder - did the exact same thing, 90% to the Lord and kept only 10% for himself and we all know how successful Penney’s is :)

]]> By: freewillgiver http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-439 freewillgiver Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:28:45 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-439 SM Thankyou for boldly presenting your opinion. SM I hope you expolore this blog and learn more about freewill offerings. Please write back and respond. It is true that many pastors work hard however most people are offended to see a pastor who is wealthy. People expect pastors to be sacraficing people like Jesus who made himself poor so that we might be rich. I am not offended if the pastor made that money outside of preaching and he is giving to the poor Like the real ST. Nicolace who people now know as Santa Clause. St Nicolace was a rich man who ended up giving away all of his money in secret ways to help people. He even bought slaves in order to set them free and this was unheard of in the Eastern Roman Empire before 500AD when he lived. Christians are made most popular in the eyes of the world when they give wealth and suffer not when they accumulate wealth and live lifestyles of the rich and famous. The best Christians America has ever seen were the African American slaves. Their masters who were bad Christians were wealthy and famous but the Christian slaves are famous in the kingdom of heaven. Jesus lived in an impoverished nation and died the death of a slave because he gave everything away to set people free. All pastors should be like the best missionaries who are gennerally known for sacrafice. Pastors should all be like missionaries who live to give and the popularity of this kind of giving will spread the most glory to the church and Jesus its head. Missionarys, the Christian Black slaves of America, Santa Clause, and Jesus have the kind of good reputations that all Christian pastors should strive for. This is nearly the opposite of rich and famous wealthy pastors fame. freewillgiver SM Thankyou for boldly presenting your opinion. SM I hope you expolore this blog and learn more about freewill offerings. Please write back and respond. It is true that many pastors work hard however most people are offended to see a pastor who is wealthy. People expect pastors to be sacraficing people like Jesus who made himself poor so that we might be rich. I am not offended if the pastor made that money outside of preaching and he is giving to the poor Like the real ST. Nicolace who people now know as Santa Clause. St Nicolace was a rich man who ended up giving away all of his money in secret ways to help people. He even bought slaves in order to set them free and this was unheard of in the Eastern Roman Empire
before 500AD when he lived. Christians are made most popular in the eyes of the world when they give wealth and suffer not when they accumulate wealth and live lifestyles of the rich and famous. The best Christians America has ever seen were the African American slaves. Their masters who were bad Christians were wealthy and famous but the Christian slaves are famous in the kingdom of heaven. Jesus lived in an impoverished nation and died the death of a slave because he gave everything away to set people free. All pastors should be like the best missionaries who are gennerally known for sacrafice. Pastors should all be like missionaries who live to give and the popularity of this kind of giving will spread the most glory to the church and Jesus its head. Missionarys, the Christian Black slaves of America, Santa Clause, and Jesus have the kind of good reputations that all Christian pastors should strive for. This is nearly the opposite of rich and famous wealthy pastors fame.

freewillgiver

]]> By: amber http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-438 amber Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:15:44 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-438 it bothers me to hear such talk to rich pastors. the problem is people think God has blessed you with money. was Jesus rich? did he ever have a house of his own? or better yet a mansion? i'm blessed in a way many will never understand. give what you have and then give more. be like Jesus in all that we do... think of him in all things... it bothers me to hear such talk to rich pastors. the problem is people think God has blessed you with money. was Jesus rich? did he ever have a house of his own? or better yet a mansion? i’m blessed in a way many will never understand. give what you have and then give more. be like Jesus in all that we do… think of him in all things…

]]> By: tithe http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-436 tithe Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:32:09 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-436 Thanks for your input SM. I don't think its really our place to say this salary is too much or that house is too big. All i can say, is that if i was a pastor, my living would not be extravagantly above the average of the flock that i am feeding. I think another struggle would be that an extravagant wealth would be counterproductive to what God calls pure religion - to feed the poor and take care of the widows and orphans. I've never been rich, so i wouldn't know the personal experience or even arguments coming from rich pastors, but i think there is some part in me that wonders if something is not right with what's happening. Thanks for your input SM. I don’t think its really our place to say this salary is too much or that house is too big. All i can say, is that if i was a pastor, my living would not be extravagantly above the average of the flock that i am feeding. I think another struggle would be that an extravagant wealth would be counterproductive to what God calls pure religion - to feed the poor and take care of the widows and orphans.

I’ve never been rich, so i wouldn’t know the personal experience or even arguments coming from rich pastors, but i think there is some part in me that wonders if something is not right with what’s happening.

]]> By: SM http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-437 SM Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:09:49 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-437 I don't think that there is anything wrong with Pastors taking a portion of whatever it is that GOD has them take, if any at all. But it has to be according to what the Lord has them do. If they are just taking money that is suppose to go towards something else then that is a different story. If they are taking money when God is not having them do so then they will have to answer for that. But I think you had it right, these men and women have worked hard and not only bring a service to the people but do the service of the Lord and they should be a reward for that. How many times in the Bible did God bless those people who obeyed his word and did his will and brought forward his message with wealth? Several. God blesses those who carry out his work. Because it's monetary that means it's wrong? Come on, give me a break. God wants for his people to lack for nothing. That's all his servants, including pastors. Most people look at this with an eye of carnality, they do not understand the way the Church or things of the spirit work. They see a Pastor with a mansion and think "Oh, that's so wrong, he should give that money away" but how can the Church function, how can ministry continue to spread and grow if Churches didn't take tithes or offerings? The focus is all wrong people look at what the Pastors have not at the people who give the money or the reason why they give the money. Not only is it about perpetuating the ministry but also about making a personal sacrifice. God wants to know that a person will make the sacrifice of something that for us means so much, money. Giving is a test of faith. People think that you shouldn't have to give money but it is so much more important than "oh, you just helped the pastor buy a new car." It's symbolic of so much more. Now outright lying and scamming people is another story but those who do such will have to answer to God for that. And further, there's a certain amount of example that Pastors set, if the congregation is steady going to a church where the pastor is poor or doesn't APPEAR to be blessed then why should they believe that under his ministry that they can be blessed (not to say that the appearance is the thing to look at because it isn't) but that is the way most people think. God has his Kingdom represented in a certain way, he his people to thrive financially just as people in the "secular world" do. The Church is the HEAD and not the TAIL remember? And why is it a problem that a Christian should be rich? Christian shouldn't be blessed financially because they're Christian? Christians shouldn't have material desires because they're Christian? The problem isn't having materials it's placing those materials above God. God is not raising up an army of poor servants, he just isn't. Actors and actresses take money from their work, why is it wrong for a Pastor? Some people will do "reverse tithing" and that is great! But that is not for everybody. I think God has people do according to what HE feels is the will for their life. It's different for different people. Having money doesn't make you a hypocrite and it certainly doesn't take away from the gifts God gave you for Pastoring or Preaching. Pastors tithe and give offerings too. Chances are they didn't even make it to where they are without doing so. The bible says if you GIVE bountifully, REAP bountifully. And NO, I am not a pastor. lol. I'm a 19 year old college student who has witnessed my share of churches and giving and the like. I understand the way it works and as a Christian hate to see people peg cast terrible things over the Church when they really have no idea how things work. But people will believe what they want at the end of the day so all I can do is provide my insight. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with Pastors taking a portion of whatever it is that GOD has them take, if any at all. But it has to be according to what the Lord has them do. If they are just taking money that is suppose to go towards something else then that is a different story. If they are taking money when God is not having them do so then they will have to answer for that. But I think you had it right, these men and women have worked hard and not only bring a service to the people but do the service of the Lord and they should be a reward for that. How many times in the Bible did God bless those people who obeyed his word and did his will and brought forward his message with wealth? Several. God blesses those who carry out his work. Because it’s monetary that means it’s wrong? Come on, give me a break. God wants for his people to lack for nothing. That’s all his servants, including pastors. Most people look at this with an eye of carnality, they do not understand the way the Church or things of the spirit work. They see a Pastor with a mansion and think “Oh, that’s so wrong, he should give that money away” but how can the Church function, how can ministry continue to spread and grow if Churches didn’t take tithes or offerings? The focus is all wrong people look at what the Pastors have not at the people who give the money or the reason why they give the money. Not only is it about perpetuating the ministry but also about making a personal sacrifice. God wants to know that a person will make the sacrifice of something that for us means so much, money. Giving is a test of faith. People think that you shouldn’t have to give money but it is so much more important than “oh, you just helped the pastor buy a new car.” It’s symbolic of so much more. Now outright lying and scamming people is another story but those who do such will have to answer to God for that.

And further, there’s a certain amount of example that Pastors set, if the congregation is steady going to a church where the pastor is poor or doesn’t APPEAR to be blessed then why should they believe that under his ministry that they can be blessed (not to say that the appearance is the thing to look at because it isn’t) but that is the way most people think. God has his Kingdom represented in a certain way, he his people to thrive financially just as people in the “secular world” do. The Church is the HEAD and not the TAIL remember?

And why is it a problem that a Christian should be rich? Christian shouldn’t be blessed financially because they’re Christian? Christians shouldn’t have material desires because they’re Christian? The problem isn’t having materials it’s placing those materials above God.

God is not raising up an army of poor servants, he just isn’t. Actors and actresses take money from their work, why is it wrong for a Pastor? Some people will do “reverse tithing” and that is great! But that is not for everybody. I think God has people do according to what HE feels is the will for their life. It’s different for different people. Having money doesn’t make you a hypocrite and it certainly doesn’t take away from the gifts God gave you for Pastoring or Preaching. Pastors tithe and give offerings too. Chances are they didn’t even make it to where they are without doing so. The bible says if you GIVE bountifully, REAP bountifully.

And NO, I am not a pastor. lol. I’m a 19 year old college student who has witnessed my share of churches and giving and the like. I understand the way it works and as a Christian hate to see people peg cast terrible things over the Church when they really have no idea how things work. But people will believe what they want at the end of the day so all I can do is provide my insight.

]]> By: Investigating Televangelist Finances http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-435 Investigating Televangelist Finances Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:34:43 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-435 [...] makes them think that their luxurious lifestyles doesn’t send up a red flag? They are just plain foolish in their logic. Who should congress [...] [...] makes them think that their luxurious lifestyles doesn’t send up a red flag? They are just plain foolish in their logic. Who should congress [...]

]]> By: tithe http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-434 tithe Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:01:34 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-434 Thanks for the comment Fred. I like that you've come to see that the church should be used to give out loans. This is interesting. Not many people can see the vision that you are seeing. The truth is our nations would be in so much better shape economically if the Church took more responsibility for the welfare of people. Rather than the government doing so for us. Thanks for the comment Fred. I like that you’ve come to see that the church should be used to give out loans. This is interesting. Not many people can see the vision that you are seeing. The truth is our nations would be in so much better shape economically if the Church took more responsibility for the welfare of people. Rather than the government doing so for us.

]]> By: Fred http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-433 Fred Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:55:21 +0000 http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/2007/08/21/rich-pastors-not-common-but-not-endangered/#comment-433 Well I think it is ok for a person to live on what they are good at, didn't the bible say if you live by the sorw you will die by the sorw. I believed it is the same as, if you preach the gospel you should live by the gospel. Now if you run a small ministries you will live acording it income, small car, small home, and etc. Why? because the people you are meeting with, you will dress acording to your surrounding. But if you were to run a big ministries and meet with well know people who are willing to invest into your ministry---or---O people don't know that we should be in control of the enconomics that the people of the world can come to the Church and borrow instead of going to the bank. And sometime host people at home, give them ride, and etc. I believe you will have to meet their standare. I have to Go, I will come back latter. Well I think it is ok for a person to live on what they are good at, didn’t the bible say if you live by the sorw you will die by the sorw. I believed it is the same as, if you preach the gospel you should live by the gospel. Now if you run a small ministries you will live acording it income, small car, small home, and etc. Why? because the people you are meeting with, you will dress acording to your surrounding. But if you were to run a big ministries and meet with well know people who are willing to invest into your ministry—or—O people don’t know that we should be in control of the enconomics that the people of the world can come to the Church and borrow instead of going to the bank. And sometime host people at home, give them ride, and etc. I believe you will have to meet their standare.
I have to Go, I will come back latter.

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