Watch this insane video with Creflo Dollar on tithing. Here are few things he says
This tithing rant by creflo dollar just makes me sick.
Mint.com – A visual Guide to Giving
budget planner – Mint.com
In my opinion, Church advertising is one of those gray areas. depending on which angle you look at the way some churches advertise, you can make a case for unethical practices or just poor stewardship. The hard part is figuring out if there is a line to draw or even if there should be any boundaries at all. It’s hard for me to determine at what point do we treat the church like a business, or treat it like a family? I mention four questions below that i believe could help us determine some boundaries.
How much is too much? Truthfully, I don’t know. I believe that God gave us resources to use as tools to reach people. So, I’m not one of those who believes that we shouldn’t advertise or build church buildings just because you can’t find a verse for it in the New Testament.
I am worried that we rely too much on our advertising to attract others to the city on the hill instead of using the light to attract. What i mean is that our actions should shine a light that reflects Jesus Christ onto the world. Advertising is not bad as long as those who come get some light when they show up. If you use advertising to bring people there, and promos to keep people there, then that’s when i believe we rely on it too much.
Wood, hay, and stubble make can make a lot of light when they are burned, but the fire only lasts for a few moments. On the other hand – gold, silver, & precious stones emit an everlasting glow, and do not decay. How much light would your fellowship have once the flare, and blazes of your promotions burned out? If i say it more directly. . . how much light does your fellowship once the flare of the Sunday performance ends?
I realize there is no price limit on how much we should spend to gain 1 soul. But the opposing truth is that if all we had to do was spend money, then i think we would be a lot more successful then we have been. As stewards of God’s kingdom, i think there’s one word to sum up our role – investors. A steward is much more than a person who can keep his master’s possessions safe. A good steward uses wisdom to multiply his master’s wealth.
This is my opinion, but i believe we spend too much money on those who we think are going to deserve God’s grace. We love investing in the middle-class American. If we had to advertise to the poor, then our advertising would be most effective through charitable actions. Advertising to the poor takes a lot of humility, time, and has very little recursive benefits.
One of our struggles as humans is to see the potential that some earthly investments have over others in heaven. That’s why I think most of us are complacent with putting more money in advertising dollars than in humanitarian efforts. The truth be told, if we wish to advertise Jesus the Christ, find out how Jesus asked us to advertise. And then advertise your advertisement. Make sense? 
I don’t think that advertisements need to have a gospel presentation embedded in it. So, maybe this is one of those gray areas. I think the bottom line with advertising is that we should be seeking the lost, or those who need Christian fellowship and accountability. It seems that some churches really lose site of that.
Some churches think their advertising campaign is a PR tool to promote their popularity. It says nothing about Jesus Christ, and when you go to their advertised events, still nothing is said about Jesus Christ. More or less, it’s either a self help seminar, a warm and fuzzy message, or a concert. I think my statement above applies well to this. Find out what Jesus asked us to advertise, then advertise that.
Maybe it’s OK that our goals are strictly for social reasons instead of Gospel reasons? Maybe we can advertise concerts just to break down social barriers – so that people know Christians can have fun as well? Must we always be on the offensive as Christians? I know I am asking a lot of questions, but like i said, there can be a lot of gray areas when it comes to this topic. I don’t think i have this all figured out yet.
The Pros
1. It spreads awareness – There’s nothing wrong with telling people – this is what we do, and this is where we stand.
2. It nags people – The consistent reminder here and there wouldn’t hurt.
3. You can focus on certain demographics – Targeting age groups and certain cultures is an effective way to communicate that visitors will feel welcome and comfortable around those who are like them.
The Cons
1. It costs money – According to Center for Church Communication in 2005 “80% of churches spend less than $10,000 on marketing and promotions each year (includes bulletins, newsletters, web sites, mailings, etc.)”. That figure seems lower than i expected. Don’t know how they come up with their numbers.
2. It’s used as bait – Usually you are not going to advertise the penalty of sin, and that we all deserve to burn in hell. More than likely you are going to advertise a concert, some self help sermons, or a pot-luck dinner or something.
I don’t think I’ve come to any solid conclusions here. Like i said, i have questions, and i see a lot of gray areas. I think this is partly because i don’t believe that Church is an event that occurs on Sundays. So, why should we judge how we prepare for that day different than we would any other day. The important thing is that we are a family, but there’s no laws against using business techniques. Bottom line- Christians have a job to do,- we have the liberty to use resources to get the message out- and we should be wise stewards.
Do you have any Pros or Cons that you wish to add to churches spending money on marketing? Do you think i was wrong with my analysis anywhere?
I have just updated our blog to add sign-up boxes for both Yahoo and Google discussion groups that I participate in. These groups are a good compliment to this blog because it is an open format. On this blog, usually the comments stick to the topic in that post, so it might not seem relevant to ask general questions that do not relate. But joining and submitting your questions to any of these discussion groups can be the best way to ask general questions and bring up topics all on your own.
The Yahoo Group was started in 2005 and was started by George Fox. Currently there are 145 members. The Google group was started in 2007 and was started by me. Currently there are 133 members. The sign up boxes are in the right hand column of this page.
I know there are a majority who disagree with what I’m about to say. Even some of those who believe the same thing as I do – that tithing is not required, will disagree with me about this.
I do not believe that Jacob’s tithing vow in Genesis 28 was deceptive or manipulative. I believe that unclear translation, and preconceived notions about Jacob have implanted wrong assumptions. Before i run through my analysis Let’s quickly overview the scenario leading up to the events of Jacob’s vow:
Jacob just found a resting place to sleep after deceiving Esau out of his birthright and running away. During his sleep, Jacob had a dream in which God promised him multiple blessings. After the dream, Jacob wakes up, renames this place to “bethel” and makes a vow to God. – That should do it for a quick synopsis.
First, I believe that many translations of Genesis 28 interpret Jacob’s vow unclearly. Here’s what the NKJV states, “Then Jacob made a vow, saying, ‘If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace…’”
I believe the unclear translation comes with one simple little word in that passage – “If”. Let’s reword that passage and use a more clear translation of what I (IMHO) believe it should say. “And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, SINCE God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father’s house in peace”.
Let’s not forget that God JUST finished stating those exact promises to Jacob in the dream- “the land on which you lie I will give to you . . . I am with you, and will keep you in all places . . . . and will bring you back to this land”.
We can see that the phrase- “if God’, is constantly misused throughout many other biblical passages:
Romans 8:31 “What then shall we say to these things? If God [is] for us, who [can be] against us?”
2 Peter 2:4 “For if God did not spare the angels who sinned”
1 John 4:11 “Beloved, if God so loved us”
Really, “IF” God loves us? Hmmmm. I believe “SINCE” God loves us would be a more clear translation.
Let’s not just take my word for it. here are some others who agree
Young’s Literal Translation states the beginning of Genesis 28:20 as this, “And Jacob voweth a vow, saying, `Seeing God is with me, and hath kept me in this way which I am going…”
Warren W. Wiersbe in his Old Testament bible commentary states, “The ‘If’ found in many translations of verse 20 can also be read ’since.’ Jacob wasn’t making a bargain with God. He was affirming his faith in God”
In “Exploring Genesis: An Expository Commentary” by John Phillips it states, “And Jacob vowed a vow saying, If God will be with me [or better, 'since God will be with me'; he is not using the language of uncertainty, but of assurance]“.
Jacob didn’t add any amendments to God’s promises, so where do we find that Jacob makes any bargain? For instance, If i told you that I’m going to buy a brand new car, and you responded back by demanding a new car as if it was your idea, i would think you were a little wacky. It wasn’t Jacob that drafted the terms of God’s promises. Jacob’s response was telling God – “since you are doing that, then i will do this”
The other preconceived notion is that Jacob was being deceptive in his vow. Yes, i believe that Jacob was deceptive at times; but there is no indication that deception was in his heart at that time. As a matter of fact, scripture says quite the opposite. Once Jacob awoke from his dream the bible says he had fear – “Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew [it] not. And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful [is] this place! this [is] none other but the house of God”
Another situation that clouds our assumptions is that many correlate Jacob’s vow with Jepthah’s careless vow in Judges 11 where he promises God, “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
Jepthah’s vow was made out of uncertainty and not of assurance. It was foolish, and he thought he could use a token from his possessions to persuade God to give him victory. Jacob’s vow was not used as a bargaining chip in this way.
As you can see, Jacob immediately named that place “bethel”, fulfilling his vow in vs. 22. In chapter 35, he commands that his family put away the strange gods, therefore affirming that the LORD was his God. Two-third’s of Jacob’s vow was just fulfilled without God completely fulfilling his promises. Did Jephthah do the same?
Jacob didn’t fulfill one portion of his vow, and that was because he couldn’t. God stated, “the land on which you lie I will GIVE to you and your descendants”, so once you look at what Jacob promised, “of all that you GIVE me, i will surely give a tenth unto thee”; you find that Jacob had promised to tithe off of what he received from the promised land. It’s kind of hard to give a tithe of the promised land, when you haven’t inherited it yet.
Like i said, many people disagree with me about this issue, but there’s no scripture to back up the claim that Jacob was bargaining or being deceptive with God. As i stated above, scripture is clear in saying Jacob had fear in his heart, not deception. Second, these demands did not originate from Jacob, they came from God. Third, the word “if” is unclear in many other passages in many bible translations.
I hope this helps some of you. I don’t want to just throw out my opinion here so that’s why i compared this translation with other scriptures, and used scriptures to also determine the attitude that Jacob had in his heart at the time.
- jared
Through the years of debating and writing about tithing, I’ve come across many people that seem to be almost persuaded about the truth of tithing. But there’s always one or two things that hold them back. So what is it about tithing that neutralizes scriptural truth and keeps them from switching teams? These reasons could be roadblocks to accepting the truth from anything. Maybe you thought the color of the sky was actually red, until someone told you it was actually blue. What emotions did you experience that could have stopped you from believing the truth? Here are 5 reasons why it is so hard to let go of the tithing practice.
A frequent question many want to know is where would your church get money if there was no command to tithe? Would your lights be on? Would your heat be working? It’s hard for tithers to grasp the idea that the Church can survive without a mandated tax upon the people.
Tithing’s simplistic nature seems to be an impossible formula to miscalculate. I mean, how hard is it to figure out 10%? Tithing’s simplicity is a strong reason why many are hesitant to let go of its practice. As a side note, i don’t believe that tithing actually is simple. Too many questions about tithing on the gross vs net, or tithing on retirement accounts, gift cards, bonuses, birthday presents . . .etc, etc, etc (you get the point).
Giving 10% seems to be a safe standard that consistently earns God’s favor (or so it seems). if you give at least a tithe, you should be safe right? Many believe that the tithe puts a hedge of protection over them.
Granted, that question is worthy of an explanation. First, if history has taught us anything, it’s that we can’t rely on precedence to determine how we should operate. Second, there are hundreds of denominations that all have a distinguished set of differences, which means that the majority of the Church is wrong about some of their practices.
Since most of us rely on church practices to dictate our beliefs, our faith lies in what the church has practiced over the last couple of centuries, rather than relying on scripture.
So many of our friends and family still tithe. Our pastor tithes. All the deacons and elders tithe. All the ushers tithe. Even our Sunday school teacher tithes. What would everyone think if you told them you didn’t believe in tithing? I didn’t want anyone to think that i’m a backsliding Christian. It’s only human to not to want to be judged about your faith.
I struggled with being wrong about my stance for a long time. What if there’s something i was missing? What if i was totally wrong about tithing? I’m human, so more than likely i fouled up somewhere in my analysis. This is probably true, but there’s so many others out there that have got our backs.
Their whole lives they’ve been tithers, so how do you change the stripes on a zebra? More than likely we have never experienced what true, new covenant giving should be like. We’ve been tamed and trained like a circus lion our whole lives, and we couldn’t operate in a jungle if our lives depended on it.
Once we stop tithing, we just stand there with our pants down, nibbling on our fingernails. So ultimately many of us just go back to tithing because we don’t know how to operate once we’re released in the jungle and given our spirit led freedom.
This is probably why many tithers believe that Spirit led giving is just like throwing darts at a board. They believe that Spirit led giving is just a guessing game that let’s you do whatever you please without consequence. This is just plain ignorance.
I remember my very first response to when i first heard that tithing was not biblical for the Church. I immediately defended tithing and I defended those who taught me tithing. There’s just no way i could be wrong. At that moment, I felt I knew scripture like the back of my hand. I was definitely right, and the other person who questioned tithing was definitely wrong. So of course, with my pride at full steam, i scoured the scriptures to prove my adversary wrong.
Boy, was I in for a rude awakening, and my pride was hurt when i had to concede that i was wrong. I tell you that once i found the truth about tithing, i looked at what i knew with a whole different light. I had an open mind about anything i thought was truth. I began looking everything up in the bible. I never ever trusted my instinct again. I began to listen to theories other than my own. Luckily i actually studied scriptures rather than let pride take my stand for me.
How did i come up with this list of 5 roadbloacks to tithing? Well, these feelings are what i felt when i was contemplating the truth about tithing. I have had to come face to face with each of these emotions. I had to confront each one of them in order to fully believe the truth behind tithing.
What were/are your feelings when you were dealing with the truth about tithing? Have you felt anger, bitterness, disappointment, or anything else? Was there any other doctrine that you felt deceived about? What was your reaction to the truth then?
I am astounded at the number of visitors that come to this website. Each month it keeps growing and growing. we have had an increase of 74% more traffic in 2009 over 2008. I will tell you that it is hard focusing on one topic and still keep the blog creative and interesting. So this past year, in 2009, i have tried to include a more of a stewardship tone rather than the monotony of tithing on every post. I think the variations help some of us to get informed about all the news about stewardship and finances within the Church. I must be honest, sometimes i have to force myself to read the recent news and blogs that discuss tithing. And then sometimes find a way to get fired up and energetic enough to write about it because it can be monotonous. Although, many times, it’s easy for me to do all of this. The hard part is finding time.
This past year was the busiest for me. My wife and i have our first born. She is now 14 months old, and is adorable. On top of that, i picked up a part time job working 3-4 days a week from 4AM – 10AM!!! Blah! Yep – daycare $$, diapers $$, clothes $$, doctors $$ . . . sigh. I own a web design business that’s been growing, and this year was busy regardless of the economy(praise God)!
Enough about myself, and more about what the goals for this website are this coming year.
I own a web design business, and i must admit that my home page is horrendous. I am ashamed. The blog doesn’t look as bad, but it needs an overhaul as well. I am going to make it easier to navigate, find resources, and browse information on the website. I have been taking notes and brainstorming this for a long, long time.
I have a 150 page book about tithing that i’ve been editing (well trying to) for the past year. I will first try to submit it to publishers and see if they’re interested. Not counting on that, but might as well try, right? Ultimately, I will create a free down-loadable version on my website. This e-book will be an invaluable asset to those who wish to study what the scripture says about tithing and biblical giving. Most of the book will break down tithing, but the other significant portion will discuss what true, new covenant giving should be like. Some of the misconceptions about anti-tithers is that we just want to stop people from giving, so this book will go on the offense and quench these unfounded accusations against us.
Once the redesign is done, the comment section will have capability to reply to individual comments and be threaded in that order. It will be easily visible to see who has replied to whom in each comment without reading down a long page of responses. Overall, i am satisfied with the performance of the blog. I didn’t think there would be much discussion because a blog about tithing and stewardship seems like one of those things that wouldn’t get much attention.
One thing i would like to advertise is the opportunity for anyone to be an author and post your own blog articles. Sermons, rants, debates, topical discussions, book reviews, cartoons, videos, and questions are all welcome on the subject of tithing or stewardship. For those of you who wish to post your synopsis on an issue, but don’t feel like creating a website for it, well, here’s your chance. Create your very own blog post. Even if you have your own website, you can write a new article for this blog, and post links back to your own website to help promote it. Go to our contact page here and submit your request. We are looking for unique and creative content that you have ownership rights to.
You’ve heard this statement before – “if it looks like it, if it acts like it, then it is it”. This statement comes to mind when i think of those who have trouble categorizing tithing under Old Testament law. One thing i need clarify is that when i mention the ‘law’, i am talking about Old Testament rituals that have no place within the New Covenant Church. Of course God has laws that are eternal. I would consider eternal laws principles that transcend the old and new testament.
Now that that’s past us, let’s look at a few key points that prove why looks like and acts like an Old Testament law.
Did you know that the gift of giving is the only Spiritual gift that has a minimum standard? What i don’t exactly comprehend is if tithing controls our giving, then why should something that isn’t defined by the Holy Spirit even be considered a Spiritual gift? Another thing to consider is if Israel gave offerings above the tithe without the Holy Spirit, then what would we need the Holy Spirit to guide our offerings for?
The Old Testament had laws that regulated how ministry was operated. For instance, only a certain tribe was called to serve, they only served the temple for 2 weeks out of the year, they could only serve for 25 years, and they had no inheritance of property. We could use these guidelines on how ministers should serve today; but we conveniently rely on the Holy Spirit to ordain and make up different guidelines for our ministers. Unfortunately, we don’t have the faith to believe that the Holy Spirit has the capability to ordain sacrificial givers to finance the Church. ATTENTION PASTORS & MINISTRY LEADERS: I don’t think it’s by mistake that we scour the Old Testament in search of regulations keeps money coming in; and yet you use the anonymity of the Holy Spirit to keep your power and position.
Some may think that my analysis of tithing is focusing on the letter of the law, and not the general spirit of the law. But what they fail to realize is Jesus himself condoned the Pharisees for their meticulous tithing habits. The truth is that Jesus lived under the regulations of the Old Testament laws. Jesus confirms the authority of the law earlier in the same passage here in Matthew 23:2-3 “Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do . . .”
There’s no guarantee that 11% or even 12% is the overall amount that the Holy Spirit is asking you to give, so why should 10% be a rule? Tithing is not a teacher of new testament stewardship. It is like Galatians 3:24 states, it is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. A schoolmaster, is not a teacher, it is more like a babysitter. As Vine’s Expository Dictionary states, “The paidagogos[schoolmaster] was not the instructor of the child; he exercised a general supervision over him and was responsible for his moral and physical well-being”.
Our guide, our tutor, our helper is now the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the only tutor that understands our strengths and weaknesses, and can privately tutor us with custom stewardship lessons. Every child of God learns at a different pace. In the Old Testament tithing was fine because there was no access to a private tutor. The Israelites could not cross the Holy of Holies and be granted access to communicate with God.
STOP, and SLOWLY think about this next question i’m about to ask . . . . . . . . Can you name me any other requirement, besides tithing, that the pharisees meticulously followed that is also required today? If you look at what the pharisees meticulously obeyed, it should give us a pretty solid answer as to what is NOT required today. For instance, circumcision, clean/unclean meats, work on the sabbath, washing hands, were the trophies of the pharisees and yet, we do not follow these guidelines. I can’t think of anything that the pharisees had bragging rights for that we can actually say is required today. For some reason, there’s one exception to that rule, and it’s – tithing. Even in the book of Matthew, Christ condones the pharisees for their meticulous tithing, but rebukes them in the same sentence for exclusion of justice, mercy, and faith.
I’m not saying that tithing shouldn’t be considered a sacrifice, or that you don’t have the right heart if you do tithe. But if we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter, what makes us believe that serving 10% is in the newness of the spirit?
This is the most obvious reason tithing acts like an Old Testament law. The first argument that comes to the defense of tithing is that Abraham tithed before the Mosaic law. Tis true, but tithing was not a ‘requirement’ before the Mosaic law. If it had been a requirement, then Jacob in Genesis 28 could not have the opportunity to make a tithing vow. Most people believe that Jacob was just trying to fool God, and that God overlooked his foolishness, but as we see in Genesis 31:3 God did not overlook Jacob’s vow. This puts a big hole in the argument that tithing was required before the law.
Once you have biblical proof of tithing not being required prior to the Mosaic law, you can then look at historical records and see that Abraham was required to tithe because of a law in the land of Canaan that required a 10% tax on the spoils of war(1 pg 127)(2 pg 235-236).
This is probably the second most obvious reason. Of all the bible verses recorded under the new covenant, you do not see a single reference to tithing along side any commands on giving. In Hebrews 7, tithing is mentioned, but it is not attached to a command on giving. Another important thing to remember is that Hebrews was written to the Jews, who would have been well aware of the practice of tithing anyway, but struggled with understanding the purpose of the law. The gentiles, who knew the least about tithing, never received any instructions on tithing whatsoever.
Some principles found under the new covenant show that giving should be, ‘liberal’ 2 Corinthians 8:2, ‘free’ Romans 8:32, ’sacrificial’ Romans 12:1, and ‘cheerful’ 2 Corinthians 9:7. There are no hints to show our giving should have a starting point, or a minimum.
AND
Tithing & Stewardship Group
on Top 10 Reasons Why Tithing is Not Required
on Tithing and Still Broke by Niral Russell Burnett on Tithing and Still Broke by Niral Russell Burnett
on Pulpit Pimps Twas the Night before Christmas
on 10 Solid Arguments Against Tithing
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