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	<title>Comments on: Pagan Christianity &#8211; Tithing and Clergy Salaries</title>
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	<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/</link>
	<description>Wise council about Church stewardship, Christian finances, and the tithe debate</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:00:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: steward</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-4633</link>
		<dc:creator>steward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-4633</guid>
		<description>Kalu,
Believe me Kalu, with all of the emails and comments that i have received, i can promise you that every positive experience you have with tithing, there is also a negative one.

I have a question, how do you define success? Would you define dying on a cross a success? Would you define being stoned to death a success? Would you define living off of locusts and honey in the wilderness a success?

I think you need to re-read the bible about your beliefs.
.-= steward´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/if-it-looks-like-it-acts-like-it/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;If Tithing Looks Like it &amp; Acts Like It&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kalu,<br />
Believe me Kalu, with all of the emails and comments that i have received, i can promise you that every positive experience you have with tithing, there is also a negative one.</p>
<p>I have a question, how do you define success? Would you define dying on a cross a success? Would you define being stoned to death a success? Would you define living off of locusts and honey in the wilderness a success?</p>
<p>I think you need to re-read the bible about your beliefs.<br />
<span class="cluv"> steward´s last blog ..<a href="http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/if-it-looks-like-it-acts-like-it/" rel="nofollow">If Tithing Looks Like it &amp; Acts Like It</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: blessed</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-4631</link>
		<dc:creator>blessed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 22:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-4631</guid>
		<description>Hi, Kalu

The old covenant God had with the nation of Israel was exclusively for children of Israel  only. No gentiles were allowed to go near the Sanctuary or the Temple that God commanded Arron and Moses to build. Only the tribe of Levites were allowed by God to go near the temple.

Please read (Numbers 18:1-3 ) Not even people from other tribes from the nation of Israel were allowed to go near the temple.

Jesus himself was not allowed to perform as a priest or a high priest when he was here on earth or he would have sin according to the Mosiac law. (Hebrews 8:4)

The veil in the temple was torn when Jesus died on the cross. That signifies that the old covenant was cancelled because the curse of the law was laid on Jesus. He redeemed all humanity from the wrath of God according to the old covenant with his sin offering with his precious blood that God the father accepted.

Please do not mix the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS with blood of animals that was used in sin offering according to the old Levitical priesthood by combining the new and old covenant.

DO NOT MIX JESUS SACRIFICE WITH animal sacrifice JUST TO QUOTE OLD TESTAMENT  SCRIPTURES TO MANIPULATE CHRISTIANS TO PAY FOR YOUR HOUSE AND MATERIAL POSSESIONS. ( 1 Timothy 6:5 AMP ) is very clear on that .

Have a restful day in the lord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Kalu</p>
<p>The old covenant God had with the nation of Israel was exclusively for children of Israel  only. No gentiles were allowed to go near the Sanctuary or the Temple that God commanded Arron and Moses to build. Only the tribe of Levites were allowed by God to go near the temple.</p>
<p>Please read (Numbers 18:1-3 ) Not even people from other tribes from the nation of Israel were allowed to go near the temple.</p>
<p>Jesus himself was not allowed to perform as a priest or a high priest when he was here on earth or he would have sin according to the Mosiac law. (Hebrews 8:4)</p>
<p>The veil in the temple was torn when Jesus died on the cross. That signifies that the old covenant was cancelled because the curse of the law was laid on Jesus. He redeemed all humanity from the wrath of God according to the old covenant with his sin offering with his precious blood that God the father accepted.</p>
<p>Please do not mix the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS with blood of animals that was used in sin offering according to the old Levitical priesthood by combining the new and old covenant.</p>
<p>DO NOT MIX JESUS SACRIFICE WITH animal sacrifice JUST TO QUOTE OLD TESTAMENT  SCRIPTURES TO MANIPULATE CHRISTIANS TO PAY FOR YOUR HOUSE AND MATERIAL POSSESIONS. ( 1 Timothy 6:5 AMP ) is very clear on that .</p>
<p>Have a restful day in the lord.</p>
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		<title>By: kalu</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-4630</link>
		<dc:creator>kalu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-4630</guid>
		<description>I have some questions to help you know if you are right or not about tithing. Jesus said, these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name ------ mark 16:17-18. Who amongst you has any of these testimonies:

1. Any time a sick person is brought to you, you have consistently laid hands on them and they get healed instantly in the name of Jesus.
2. Through the power of the holy ghost, you prophecy to your congregation and it has consistently come to pass over many years.
3. You have trained your spirit to hear every time the spirit of God communicates to you and respond to him.
4. Any thing you get involved in, must turn out successful, nomatter what happens to the economy of the world.

Do not call any Christian poor because poverty is not the abscence of dollars and cents, it is a state of mind which is dealt with when you are born again. Even if he/she still has the poverty mentality, they only need to understand the scriptures.
Christians cannot be blinded by doctrines because no one that has Christ walkes in darkness.
I disagree with your perception of tithing. All that the bible talks about in the book of Malachi, concerning tithing is true, that has been my experience and am ready to share it with any one that will contact me.

God bless you all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have some questions to help you know if you are right or not about tithing. Jesus said, these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name &#8212;&#8212; mark 16:17-18. Who amongst you has any of these testimonies:</p>
<p>1. Any time a sick person is brought to you, you have consistently laid hands on them and they get healed instantly in the name of Jesus.<br />
2. Through the power of the holy ghost, you prophecy to your congregation and it has consistently come to pass over many years.<br />
3. You have trained your spirit to hear every time the spirit of God communicates to you and respond to him.<br />
4. Any thing you get involved in, must turn out successful, nomatter what happens to the economy of the world.</p>
<p>Do not call any Christian poor because poverty is not the abscence of dollars and cents, it is a state of mind which is dealt with when you are born again. Even if he/she still has the poverty mentality, they only need to understand the scriptures.<br />
Christians cannot be blinded by doctrines because no one that has Christ walkes in darkness.<br />
I disagree with your perception of tithing. All that the bible talks about in the book of Malachi, concerning tithing is true, that has been my experience and am ready to share it with any one that will contact me.</p>
<p>God bless you all.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Considine</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-4565</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Considine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-4565</guid>
		<description>The above discussion is sad and shows how far off course modern day born-again Christians are.  Blinded by longstanding traditions of men.  For so many to be so fooled by the tithe lie, we must hardly be reading our Bible.

The New Testament Church met in houses, not in multi-million dollar worldly palaces.  Not even in modest buildings that burden a poorer assembly.  No conspicuous consuming on real estate means no money pressures to deceive ourselves and preach a lie.

There are two models for &quot;pastors&quot; (actually elders); Peter and Paul.  Peter forbear work and lived in the houses of church members as prophesied by the Lord Jesus Christ.  Paul primarily earned his own way, even supporting those he worked with, and was helped by established churches.  No professional &quot;pastorate&quot; or staff.  No worldly degrees granted by worldly seminaries placing unscriptural hurdles in the way and requiring money to be paid, borrowed, or granted.

The real Church has no overhead while the counterfeit church is defined by it.  Giving in the real Church goes from people to people.  The counterfeit church diverts resources from scriptural mandates (needy Christians, the poor, missions) and squanders it on buildings, maintenance, and unscriptural institutions and methods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The above discussion is sad and shows how far off course modern day born-again Christians are.  Blinded by longstanding traditions of men.  For so many to be so fooled by the tithe lie, we must hardly be reading our Bible.</p>
<p>The New Testament Church met in houses, not in multi-million dollar worldly palaces.  Not even in modest buildings that burden a poorer assembly.  No conspicuous consuming on real estate means no money pressures to deceive ourselves and preach a lie.</p>
<p>There are two models for &#8220;pastors&#8221; (actually elders); Peter and Paul.  Peter forbear work and lived in the houses of church members as prophesied by the Lord Jesus Christ.  Paul primarily earned his own way, even supporting those he worked with, and was helped by established churches.  No professional &#8220;pastorate&#8221; or staff.  No worldly degrees granted by worldly seminaries placing unscriptural hurdles in the way and requiring money to be paid, borrowed, or granted.</p>
<p>The real Church has no overhead while the counterfeit church is defined by it.  Giving in the real Church goes from people to people.  The counterfeit church diverts resources from scriptural mandates (needy Christians, the poor, missions) and squanders it on buildings, maintenance, and unscriptural institutions and methods.</p>
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		<title>By: Arlene</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-3476</link>
		<dc:creator>Arlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-3476</guid>
		<description>What is a cost of a soul? God says it cost Him his son Jesus which is priceless. Now every pastors, missionary and evangelist should received a living wage. I pray that each one that was called by God to be bless, protected, strenghten, and full of the Holy Spirit with power and authority from on high in Jesus name Amem...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is a cost of a soul? God says it cost Him his son Jesus which is priceless. Now every pastors, missionary and evangelist should received a living wage. I pray that each one that was called by God to be bless, protected, strenghten, and full of the Holy Spirit with power and authority from on high in Jesus name Amem&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Preacher Man</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-3466</link>
		<dc:creator>Preacher Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-3466</guid>
		<description>I have been in the pastorate for the last 15+ years and the last 7 in full time pastorate.

Until the last couple of years I have been very tight.

Deacon &amp; Usher may be right that some don&#039;t &quot;contribute nothing of what they were given back to the church&quot; but ALL pastor&#039;s I know give back to the church and sacrifice more than most deacons.

Churches want someone to be there when a family member dies, has surgery or needs their runny nose wiped. They do not consider the time pastors must spend in study and prayer to do 2-4 messages a week. Then they don&#039;t want to pay them what would be a decent wage any where else. I have pastored at places for years without any increase in pay whatsoever because of a gym the church built. My family sacrificed because the church didn&#039;t want me to have another job.

What I am trying to say, Deacon &amp; Usher, is that if people would support their Pastor better maybe then he could afford to give more. It is tough trying to support a wife and children on what churches pay. But those same churches want someone &quot;full-time&quot;. Then they complain about taking care of him... Read 1 Corinthians 9:14</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been in the pastorate for the last 15+ years and the last 7 in full time pastorate.</p>
<p>Until the last couple of years I have been very tight.</p>
<p>Deacon &amp; Usher may be right that some don&#8217;t &#8220;contribute nothing of what they were given back to the church&#8221; but ALL pastor&#8217;s I know give back to the church and sacrifice more than most deacons.</p>
<p>Churches want someone to be there when a family member dies, has surgery or needs their runny nose wiped. They do not consider the time pastors must spend in study and prayer to do 2-4 messages a week. Then they don&#8217;t want to pay them what would be a decent wage any where else. I have pastored at places for years without any increase in pay whatsoever because of a gym the church built. My family sacrificed because the church didn&#8217;t want me to have another job.</p>
<p>What I am trying to say, Deacon &amp; Usher, is that if people would support their Pastor better maybe then he could afford to give more. It is tough trying to support a wife and children on what churches pay. But those same churches want someone &#8220;full-time&#8221;. Then they complain about taking care of him&#8230; Read 1 Corinthians 9:14</p>
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		<title>By: History of Passing the Plate &#124; Tithing &#38; Stewardship</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-3071</link>
		<dc:creator>History of Passing the Plate &#124; Tithing &#38; Stewardship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-3071</guid>
		<description>[...] book Pagan Christianity has a good chapter on the history of giving as well. Possibly Related PostsReimagining Church by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] book Pagan Christianity has a good chapter on the history of giving as well. Possibly Related PostsReimagining Church by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Deacon &#38; Usher</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-1158</link>
		<dc:creator>Deacon &#38; Usher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 16:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-1158</guid>
		<description>Great depiction - in total agreement with Frank on this one.  I have fought the church model for 30+ years in multiple denominations.  I have watched pastors get fat and retire and contribute nothing of what they were given back to the church.  I have tithed and been condemned for not giving more than 10%.  I have tithed and been accused of not tithing.  I have seen the church laiety accused of not tithing being the cause of turmoil and calamity on the church.  In all, God doesn&#039;t need my money.  If I give it in response to coersion, I&#039;m a bad steward.  So go forward Frank Viola and let the world know what tithing is really  about and where the modern day tithe really originated!!!

Deacon and Usher - deaconandusher.wordpress.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great depiction &#8211; in total agreement with Frank on this one.  I have fought the church model for 30+ years in multiple denominations.  I have watched pastors get fat and retire and contribute nothing of what they were given back to the church.  I have tithed and been condemned for not giving more than 10%.  I have tithed and been accused of not tithing.  I have seen the church laiety accused of not tithing being the cause of turmoil and calamity on the church.  In all, God doesn&#8217;t need my money.  If I give it in response to coersion, I&#8217;m a bad steward.  So go forward Frank Viola and let the world know what tithing is really  about and where the modern day tithe really originated!!!</p>
<p>Deacon and Usher &#8211; deaconandusher.wordpress.com</p>
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		<title>By: freewillgiver</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-1150</link>
		<dc:creator>freewillgiver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 14:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-1150</guid>
		<description>Wow You have given me another insight. I wanted to be a pastor but I did not want to have a lack of marketable skills. That is a problem. Paul could work with his hands and he lived in a primitive society yet he preached the gospel gave money to the poor and was imprisoned for the faith. All pastors should live like missionaries showing the exercise of offering their lives up everyday. I might just buy this book. In the meantime please keep giving us your insights. Thankyou</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow You have given me another insight. I wanted to be a pastor but I did not want to have a lack of marketable skills. That is a problem. Paul could work with his hands and he lived in a primitive society yet he preached the gospel gave money to the poor and was imprisoned for the faith. All pastors should live like missionaries showing the exercise of offering their lives up everyday. I might just buy this book. In the meantime please keep giving us your insights. Thankyou</p>
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		<title>By: Tyris Sr.</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-1151</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyris Sr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 03:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-1151</guid>
		<description>Hi I read Pagan Christianity a couple of years ago when I was learning the Truth about tithing and I agree it was a very enlightening book but I disagree on his view of the Shepherd/Pastor model. Although it was good informational studies I think he has allowed his experiences to shape his view of the Biblical pastor. Thanks God Bless</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi I read Pagan Christianity a couple of years ago when I was learning the Truth about tithing and I agree it was a very enlightening book but I disagree on his view of the Shepherd/Pastor model. Although it was good informational studies I think he has allowed his experiences to shape his view of the Biblical pastor. Thanks God Bless</p>
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		<title>By: JLS</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-1152</link>
		<dc:creator>JLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 14:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-1152</guid>
		<description>Jared,
I don&#039;t have time to reply to all that you have to say.
I will say that I understand your approach a little better, though I do not agree with you.
Again, as I said on my blog, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this gracefully.
I trust that you shall have a wonderful day in Christ&#039;s grace and mercy.
JLS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jared,<br />
I don&#8217;t have time to reply to all that you have to say.<br />
I will say that I understand your approach a little better, though I do not agree with you.<br />
Again, as I said on my blog, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this gracefully.<br />
I trust that you shall have a wonderful day in Christ&#8217;s grace and mercy.<br />
JLS</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/comment-page-1/#comment-1153</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 05:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/pagan-christianity-tithing-and-clergy-salaries/#comment-1153</guid>
		<description>The thirty pieces of silver prophecy is about &#039;salary&#039;. King James says &#039;price&#039;. As I have been attempting to warn everyone, the putting of money into the storehouse is the same as putting money into the manna pot. The simple rebuke of Zechariah 11:12 is to just &#039;forbear&#039; or &#039;leave it alone&#039;. In Christ it has all been done for us. This makes us free to give, free to love, free to live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thirty pieces of silver prophecy is about &#8217;salary&#8217;. King James says &#8216;price&#8217;. As I have been attempting to warn everyone, the putting of money into the storehouse is the same as putting money into the manna pot. The simple rebuke of Zechariah 11:12 is to just &#8216;forbear&#8217; or &#8216;leave it alone&#8217;. In Christ it has all been done for us. This makes us free to give, free to love, free to live.</p>
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