Comments on: Pagan Christianity - Tithing and Clergy Salaries

By: Deacon & Usher

Deacon & Usher — Sun, 18 May 2008 16:35:12 +0000

Great depiction - in total agreement with Frank on this one. I have fought the church model for 30+ years in multiple denominations. I have watched pastors get fat and retire and contribute nothing of what they were given back to the church. I have tithed and been condemned for not giving more than 10%. I have tithed and been accused of not tithing. I have seen the church laiety accused of not tithing being the cause of turmoil and calamity on the church. In all, God doesn’t need my money. If I give it in response to coersion, I’m a bad steward. So go forward Frank Viola and let the world know what tithing is really about and where the modern day tithe really originated!!!

Deacon and Usher - deaconandusher.wordpress.com

By: freewillgiver

freewillgiver — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:19:36 +0000

Wow You have given me another insight. I wanted to be a pastor but I did not want to have a lack of marketable skills. That is a problem. Paul could work with his hands and he lived in a primitive society yet he preached the gospel gave money to the poor and was imprisoned for the faith. All pastors should live like missionaries showing the exercise of offering their lives up everyday. I might just buy this book. In the meantime please keep giving us your insights. Thankyou

By: Tyris Sr.

Tyris Sr. — Wed, 07 May 2008 03:45:52 +0000

Hi I read Pagan Christianity a couple of years ago when I was learning the Truth about tithing and I agree it was a very enlightening book but I disagree on his view of the Shepherd/Pastor model. Although it was good informational studies I think he has allowed his experiences to shape his view of the Biblical pastor. Thanks God Bless

By: JLS

JLS — Tue, 06 May 2008 14:45:08 +0000

Jared,
I don’t have time to reply to all that you have to say.
I will say that I understand your approach a little better, though I do not agree with you.
Again, as I said on my blog, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this gracefully.
I trust that you shall have a wonderful day in Christ’s grace and mercy.
JLS

By: Stephen

Stephen — Tue, 06 May 2008 05:04:33 +0000

The thirty pieces of silver prophecy is about ’salary’. King James says ‘price’. As I have been attempting to warn everyone, the putting of money into the storehouse is the same as putting money into the manna pot. The simple rebuke of Zechariah 11:12 is to just ‘forbear’ or ‘leave it alone’. In Christ it has all been done for us. This makes us free to give, free to love, free to live.

By: tithe

tithe — Tue, 06 May 2008 03:02:01 +0000

Thanks for the comment.
When i speak of “church”, i am speaking of the church globally. Of course there are exceptions, such as your fellowship. For instance If i say that Church is being corrupted by pastors getting into pornography, does not mean i am pointing at every single pastor. I try to lay interesting material out there, but i can’t force you to be objective about what you’ve read.

i feel that tithing can put people in ruts that prohibit them from helping the poor. Functionally i think it has a higher capacity to get you into that rut as opposed to grace/spirit-led giving. I am not saying that you are in that rut. i wouldn’t know. But i do feel that tithing increases the tendency for us to ignore the imminent needs of other things that are not initially on the list to be a recipient of our tithing.

Maybe, here’s what i mean. imagine if you planned with 3 other people to go out and knock on 50 doors downtown to witness to unsaved. But along the way there was an accident and you were at a dead stop for an hour on the road. What if there was a person right there on the side of the road that needed some help changing a tire. Would we be so consumed with being late and not meeting our door to door goals enough that we don’t see that God has prepared an opportunity right there to witness?

Here’s another example. (this is all hypothetical, but practical) What if we were on our way to Church and had $50 for our tithe to give to the church. But along the way you stopped to get gas, and someone asked if they could have gas for their car so they can take care of their family? Would we say, No?

By: JLS

JLS — Tue, 06 May 2008 02:34:52 +0000

Jared,
I would like to kindly disagree with you on the broad nature of the statements that you have made.
I think the problem with so many statements that oppose tithing is the attempt to put all who believe in it into the same corner.
You see, I don’t receive a salary. I don’t know who in my church consistently tithes. There are differing plates up front, and they bring their monies and put them into the plates as they feel led to divide it up. Some goes to pastor, some to church, missions, etc. In the end, I get whatever goes into the plate marked “pastor”. That amount varies from week to week based on people’s income, but it is a liveable wage. I believe in tithing, but that does not mean that we have become a church that is stuck in a rut that will prohibit it from helping those in trouble. Sometimes we have taken offerings where I pastor for a month in every service simply to help a family having hard times.
Jared, this is where I take issue with you…not so much in that you disagree with tithing, but that you make such broad statements that simply do not represent all who believe in tithing.
By the way, I also have a few skills that are marketable…I believe. I know other pastors who are so, too.
Grace and peace in Christ.

By: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola & George Barna

Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola & George Barna — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:35:04 +0000

[...] write my thoughts about the chapters in the next post, but plan on writing a different post just on tithing and the clergy salary. I would urge everyone to read this book. This is the book that people will love or they will hate. [...]

By: Pagan Christianity - part 2

Pagan Christianity - part 2 — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:34:13 +0000

[...] & George Barna, so now i want to get into a little more of the book. besides the one chapter on tithing & clergy salaries, the book is not about stewardship, but i do think the book overall has made an important impact on [...]