I’m also curious about the school situation. We sent our kids to a private Christian school also and because we were tithing members we got reduced fees. In fact, what we paid in tithes was less than the amount by which the fees were reduced. That represents a return on the tithe before it is given.

We do agree, however, that unnecessary debt is a bad thing and should be avoided wherever possible but we differ on the solution. Tithing is not the only reason people accumulate debt and shouldn’t be the only line of correction.

The only absolute way to avoid debt is to not spend the money. I think you are wrong to recommend people eliminate the tithe first.

All truth is eternal and we are able to identify it whenever God gives us enough evidence/information at any point in the Bible to establish it as such. Once done, nough said. Beyond that, a person is only being contrary to require more or suggest something different.

My family didn’t have the luxury of paying ourselves fully first. That was never the case. My father always paid God first, and then did what he could for his family. I look back as a parent myself, and do not know how i am here today.

I could count with both my hands the number of times my family went out to eat.

if i follow your lead, it is ok to serve two masters. On one hand i have debt, on the other i have God. I’m not talking about serving materialism and God. I’m talking about serving debt and God. There are some people who just cannot tithe!

If i accumulated a bunch of foolish unsecured debt, and wanted to give to God, i personally would pay my debt first. How can we be happy with wasting God’s money in interest rates just because we gave some money to the Church? How can you think that being wise with God’s money is not a form of paying God?

In our previous discussion, you talked about adultery, and stealing. Do you think these are eternal laws just because you see them forbidden before, during, and after the law. Is that the litmus test to determine if a law is eternal?

“My parents paid tithing for 20 years, and i can tell you that in the end they were still in $30,000 in credit card debt. Their tithe over those years was equivalent to about $100,000. I believe a wise steward would pay 70,000 in tithes and offerings and used the other 30,000 to stay out of debt.”

$30,000.00 over 20 years works out to be $125 a month. How could you avoid being over budget each month by that amount if you didn’t pay your offering at the end of the month AFTER you have spent freely on other things.

I doubt they were living close to the absolute need line if they accumulated $30,000 in debt so it would be a push to suggest that $125 represented anything other than over consumption. In other words, enjoy yourself fully and pay God what ever you have left.

That detail is found in your question post. I’m just following your lead.

“Spend your money freely to begin with and at the end see what amount you can give to God which will not upset the bank balance.” – EXCUSE ME! PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUYTH. i thought you were more civil and reasonable to say something like that, but apparently your pre-conceived judgments about anti-tithers spout out accusations that views my God as a second thought in my life.

The problem is EnnisP, that you see giving as the foundation of stewardship principles, but when you are a slave to other things in your life, such as debt and materialism, then i would perceive that our 10% stewardship practices are like vomit in our master’s eyes.

Last i checked, we commemorate the Lord’s death according to a NT command, not according to animal sacrifices that were given prior to Moses law.

Ephesians 2:15 “He (Jesus) abolished the Jewish Law with its commandments and rules in order to create out of two races one new people in union with Himself”.
The Key words are “Abolished the Jewish law and its commandments” (meaning that law keeping is No longer the Way to a Covenant with God for His Favor & blessings). Our favor, wealth, healing etc is included in our Salvation package. Also tithing was food not silver or gold.

Are you suggesting that the principle of giving is not eternal. Jesus did say it is more blessed to give than to receive. And, if it is eternal maybe we should put it at the beginning of our budget not at the end which is what you suggested.

“Spend your money freely to begin with and at the end see what amount you can give to God which will not upset the bank balance.” According to you God’s part is calculated by what is left IF there is any. If not don’t worry about it.

And, the Passover “ceremony” is not now observed but the principle of the Passover is still valid. Last I checked, we still point to Jesus, the Lamb slain, who takes away the sin of the world.

Do you see a difference between ceremonial laws, such as the passover, and eternal laws, such as adultery? Are you really not familiar with differentiating between ceremonial and eternal laws?

God’s eternal laws, are what God is- it’s part of his character. That’s why tithing (10% giving) is not eternal, and only a ceremonial standard.

We know not to commit adultery because God wouldn’t. We know not to steal because God wouldn’t.

What about tithing? Do we know to tithe because God would? Um, Hello! God gave his only possession, his one and only begotten Son. He gave his firstfruit, the very best, first, and ‘all’ of what he had at the time. So, that’s what we should know. Did God give a tithe? Would he expect his children to follow in His footsteps or Abraham’s?

Arguments for tithing have been rebutted by calling them absurd, ridiculous or dismissed with a laugh.

And Mr. Tithe’s answer to people with money problems is a simple, “yes, stop tithing” as if tithing is the reason people get into financial trouble. I am amazed he would suggest it and even more amazed that others would praise him for it.

I’m not a counselor but I have always understood that a good counselor attempts to get all the facts before announcing the solution.

And how you handle finances has a huge impact on your relationship to God. If you don’t think so read Matthew 6:19-34. Jesus clearly made the point that God must come first particularly in the area of mammon.

You folks often give the impression that OT law is something bad but that is not what Jesus taught. He fulfilled the demands of the law in our place but He didn’t eliminate the law. It isn’t the means of our righteousness but it is still the standard. No one can live up to it entirely but I would certainly never encourage any one not to try.

I wonder what you do with all the other laws: adultery, theft, lying, murder and so on? Those off the books now also?

BTW, the people Paul addressed in Galatians were those who made the law the means of salvation not those who honored it in spite of salvation. He also came down firmly on fornicators in 1 Corinthians 5. That was an OT legal issue? How do you explain that?