What do you think about stories of people giving money and then they magically get back exactly the same amount or exactly double the amount they gave? After listening to so many stewardship sermons, i’ve heard so many pastors give a story where they would give $210 in the offering and magically they would get a check in the mail that was almost the exact amount that they gave in the offering. These kind of stories kind of twist my bones a little. Who am i to say that God didn’t do that? What evidence is there to say that God gave them almost to the penny what they gave to him? Hey, maybe if they had a little more faith, God might have given them the exact amount down to the penny, back.
I don’t doubt that God rewards those who sacrifice for him. Maybe i get bent out of shape because i do not have a story where i gave such and such amount and God gave me back twice that amount through an anonymous gift. I guess i get annoyed at these stories because it gives me the idea that God is a slot machine.
Here’s what i mean. Do these miracle stories happen every time you give? No. For the people that do tell these magnificent stories, it only happens to them once in a blue moon. But when it does happen, they love to publicly display this miracle as though God does this all the time. Its like when someone sits down in front of a slot machine. They keep popping in quarters and pulling the lever, time after time. Hey, soon enough, after enough quarters and enough time, you’ll hit the jackpot. Don’t murder me here or get me wrong. I know God provides miraculously for his children, but do you know how many people can give a testimony about them winning the jackpot? probably the same amount of people that can show how they got the same amount of money back in return that they gave. Hmmm . . . maybe God is a slot machine?
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Tags: giving, god, stewardship
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great point! The ‘health and wealth’ gospel terrifies me because it appeals to peoples’ hopes, not their reality. God is real and He helps us in real ways.
Thanks for sharing!
Tithing is the act of financially acknoledging that God is the power behind your success. It is a testiment to those who see you do it; that you believe. God loves a cheerful giver! His love is what we’re after, not a jackpot. It’s a gift of gratitude and attitude. If you love me feed my sheep. It’s a matter of heart! Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also!
Joel 2:13 Rend your heart, and not your garments.
Isn’t life and the awesomeness there in reward enough? Who owes whom?
i’m not preaching, i’m reminding myself!
10 percent is small potatoes! If faith of a mustard seed moves a tree into the sea, what if you practice the faith of a mustard tree? Would it re-invent your life?
What I have noticed through the years is that the folks that have their own business’s tend to have such testimonies…occassinally. Those of us that work for a frozen wage hardly ever have such a testimony. If I should get an extra 20 dollars on my paycheck, there is no way I could say ‘Praise God, look at that return on my tithing.’ Rather, I would be compelled to notify my superior that a mistake was made on my check.
I’ve been set free for 11 years now from the whole sham. What hell we went through financially as well as condemnation. We so wanted to help the poor but could not because of tithing. Sad indeeed.
Am I understanding you correctly…? You so wanted to help the poor but could not because of tithing? Tithing “is” helping the poor! 34″Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37″Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
Not sure where you are coming from. I’ve never seen any church I’ve been in turn around and help the poor with the tithes of the people.
What is sad is that you do not understand that each person you encounter is a face of CHRIST.
Note how many times the King refers to himself as a person in need or in jail. I recommend if you have any belief what so ever that you practice using your heart instead of your head.
THE CHURCH IS THE PEOPLE, NOT A BUILDING WHERE YOU PASS A PLATE.
then devon…you may think about joining a church that has their priorities in a Godly place.
the church is the people God is dinamic and he tests us daily. If you turn away a person in need according to the scripture in Mathew 25 you are actually turning away Jesus! Do you see?
excuse me “dynamic”
Mathew 25 has some very compelling and moving words to help you put your heart in a right place with God. Chew on it for a while and see if you don’t agree. :)
Jared. Why do i feel like you must have read someone else’s testimony. I don’t understand your comments.Maybe i’m on the wrong forum. If so, no problem. I’ll scoot.God bless.
It’s all good bro, you don’t have to leave. I’m new here. But, my testimony is my own and since this thread is discussing tithing, I made a rebuttal to your comment that you could not help the poor because apearantly you tithed in church instead?! Am I understanding you correctly?
If I did understanding you correctly, then I added scriptural background to substanciate my point. Point being that tithing in church to pay the light bill is less important than helping the poor.
the church is the people…not the building.
does that help you understand?
I apologize for confusing you….I like to get fired up :)
I think we are getting to the same chapter now. I’m sorry if my wording cofused anybody. I’m not seeking help or enlightenment. I got it.Some anyway. This was years ago when we were force fed the tithing doctrine from the pulpit. It stopped our street ministry, which was very anointed, and claimed our wallets and souls.What did we know? The pastor holds the truths of the word…right?
We ‘no longer live there’. My point is this. This is what the I.C. is doing to the body of Christ. It is muzzling and shackling the Holy Spirit along with the folks with the false, man-made doctrine of devils, tithing. It burdens the needy and let’s off easy the well to do. If you are well to do, then you are free to pursue your heart’s desire without monetary hindrance. If you are poor, you are stuck in a hard place.
The poor are the one’s we are to look to and support. We are not to lavish our opulence by the sweat of the brow of the widow or the poor.
The second would be the church planter or missionary.
And you are correct when you say that the church is the people. Ekklesia. The called out ones. Webster’s take on the word church is ‘a place of worship.’
The only real place in the N.T. where the word ‘church’ is legal is in the book of Acts where it is talking about pagan temples.
I personally deplore the word ‘church’. There has been so much confusion wrought by the application of this term.
For instance. We are the church. So how do you ‘go to yourself’. I am a Leesley. Can one ask me ‘where do you go to Leesley’. Foolishness and non-sense at best. We need to jettison the word and that right quickly.
We have morphed from a living organism, the alive body of Christ, into a dead organization complete with brick and mortar, sound systems, video systems,CEO type leadership, complete with salary, perks, and rertirement plans. Little towers of babel dotting the landscape. Independant kingdoms of men and their plush dreams of self interest basking in the lime light of the little people’s adoration. Many, of the smaller sort, are honest though and disinterested..to a degree. My hat off to those few. But still the whole pyramid, top down authority construct patterned after the world’s structure, soundly condemned by Christ Himself yet very much alive today and thriving for ‘my people love it so.’
My God, where are the true servants of the Most High God? You know, the ones on their knees washing the feet of their brethren and that without charge? Those who watch out for the wolves instead of being one. The one’s who look to the poor and the heart-broken with spiritual discernment and compassion extending the supply for their need, not by mere words but by concrete, durable action.
Those humble men and women of humility and shame facedness, basking in His light, enduring afflictions and reproach, counting all esteem and applause as rotting, toxic refuse infested with the maggots of avarice and arrogance which they flee in horror lest the slime touches their blood washed garment.
Jesus said [my paraphrase] ‘If anyone of you desire to be the big cheese, then become a humble, obscure, not in your face, servant.’
Many will enter heaven with an empty poke and a down cast countenance cemented by a life time of wood, hay and stubble ministry. How grand they were on this planet beheld and upheld by the decieved masses but how shameful and irreputable in the hereafter.
I wait for the true servants even as the Lord searches the earth for those whose heart is perfect before Him. May I one day be found worthy to be counted among those who have no name on this fallen earth and yet have a name that is cursed in the realms of hell.
So now you’ve heard my veiw on tithing and churchianity. I’m sure some will try to correct me. devon [smily face].
Bravo Devon, beautifully written! I underestimated your understanding. I love it! :) How long have you loathed your flesh? How long have you waited for the exacting master vent his fury upon your enimies. I have to say I once thought like you! But my will to continue long suffering for a greater resurrection is subsiding…i’m afraid I cannot endure. I long for greener pastures and envy the rich. I pray that I am still the LORD’s advocate but I fear the concequence of my backslide.
If heaven cost more than my blood and generosity then I most likely will be turned away at the gate!
I Love what the Lord has done for me and us and I will continue to be generous…but as for holding fast to the scripture, in reality the only verse I want to keep is “Eat,Drink and be Merry for tomorow WE DIE!”
Jared, I have an article titled ‘Raging Anointed Men’. Not sure where to place it. devon
What do you mean you’re not sure where to place it? Are you looking for a place where it can get the most publicity? Did you write the article?
Are you tormented by the words of the bible? I have been tormented for almost 8 years. But on the up side, I have had a personal encounter with our maker. :) Let me give you an example of what i’m tourmented by…
(Proverbs 18:22) He who finds a wife, finds what is good and recieves favor from the LORD.
1 Corinthians 7:28
But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
It makes me feel as though i’m damned if I marry because of the many troubles and i’m also damned if I don’t marry because the need for companionship!
If I choose to marry i’ll feel like I let God down and if choose not to marry I feel like i’m missing out on a lot of fun!
I imagine if anyone has had a fearful encounter with the LORD like I have, they are also tormented by this dicission.
Without a woman I feel incomplete, although God tells me I am whole and that he is all I need. I’ve been in a place that is not much fun for a very long time.
Those who have never experienced true fear of the Lord might say ” oh, just brush it off and move on. Do what you want to do!” But they have never been beaten….by something invisible but never the less real and very painful. That is why I work out my salvation with fear and genuine trembling.
He’s one scary hombre! But awesome too!
On that note ….for a long time I had a problem with trying to praise him.
Things have gotten better and i’m having a look around with a creator perspective and the world is awesome! He is good!
I’m workin my butt off to find my place in it though!
In the past 8 years things have happened to me that most everyone hopes won’t happen to them. I’ve been a victem of identity theft (6 credit cards amassing 18000 dollars in debt)My mobile home got hit by a hurricane that ripped off the front porch and car port, I’ve gone without hot water for 2 months and without air conditioning for an entire Florida summer, I’ve dealt with rat infestation ( i’ve heard them bang their heads on the bottom of my bathtub and i’ve heard them racing on my roof at night) For no apearant reason, one morning I woke up to a kitchen full with a swarm of flies that were flying back and forth bouncing off opposing windows. ( I sucked them out of the air with a shop-vac) haha There must have been hundreds of them…literally hundreds!!! Some say it’s bad luck I guess….but I know different! :)
I call it a cluster-fu** of biblical perportion!!!
I’m no slacker!! I’ve got an A+ CompTIA computer certification, I passed Florida Real-Estate Course I (salesperson course) I’ve traded stocks on the stock market just as it began to crash in 2001. I recently passed both class D and class D Florida Security Guard Training and somehow by the grace of God I’m 34 with no children and I find myself living month after month on about 100 dollars or less in my bank account after bills. I even quit drinking for 6 of these last 8 years and I quit smoking for 2 of them. For me it seems that success is like trying to grasp oil in my hand.
True prosperity has managed to escape me time and time again in SPITE OF MY EFFORTS. I was once even on the dean’s list in college for 3 semesters.
Some might say it’s because I don’t tithe that God has broght this upon me! Truth be known, I’ve given more money in the past 8 years to needy strangers because the spirit of the LORD is upon me! Oh I have a choice not to do it, but I AM COMPELLED BY TRUE FEAR THAT IS A CONSUMING FIRE.
*BROUGHT* (SPELLING CORRECTION)
He gives new meaning to the phrase “knowedge is power”.
If I told any lie in the course of this story it is against my will. This testimony is TRUE to the best of my ability to recollect!
This has been a re-collection of my true history! His Story!
Where we goin next BOSS?? :)
What a trip!! I can’t believe i’m still alive haha.
I am one blessed S. O .B! :)
I guess i’m learning to count my blessings and not my problems.
LORD knows i’ve been counting those far too long.
Devon,
I think you have me confused with Jared. I am the owner of this blog, and yes my name is Jared also. But i am not the one with whom you’ve been speaking with. Post your link anywhere.
Jared,
Thanks for taking the time to write everything.
- jared b
Wow! 2 Jareds?? That would confuse antone..wouldn’t it?
Yea, the subject is about ..well..the title. I want to put it in right thread.I’ll go copy and pastre here.
Anointed Men in a Rage
[a short scutiny]
1Sam19
So David fled, and escaped, and came to Samuel to Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and dwelt in Naioth.
19And it was told Saul, saying, Behold, David is at Naioth in Ramah.
20And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
21And when it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also.
22Then went he also to Ramah, and came to a great well that is in Sechu: and he asked and said, Where are Samuel and David? And one said, Behold, they be at Naioth in Ramah.
23And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah.
24And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?
1Sam20:1
1And David fled from Naioth in Ramah, and came and said before Jonathan, What have I done? what is mine iniquity? and what is my sin before thy father, that he seeketh my life?
The question has come up. Can a man of God operate in the flesh and yet have the blessing and anointing of God in their life? Can they display the workings of the Holy Spirit one time and operate like the devil himself at other times? Or worse yet. Can the man of God or teacher or preacher speak with the Holy unction and at the very same time speak falsehood while under that unction?
King Saul was a man after the people’s own hearts. They had refused God’s desire and divine purpose which was to be their King and Lord personally. They wanted a man they could see and touch. One they could lavish their love and praise upon. God told Samuel to give them what they want. Give them their heart’s desire. But at the end of the day, they’ed wish they had made a better decision. God even warned them about their folly in chapter 8.
Saul took his armies to battle and won victories right and left. God surely must be pleased with the ‘new program’, right? Wrong. It still wasn’t God’s perfect plan or purpose.
We have today, what I call, a ‘church gone wild’. Tithing, titles and tiers, and might I add, tears. Tears of those who are suffering under an abusive system of control, greed and arrogance. And yet God does tend to His out of sinc flock inspite of 1700 years of ignoring the N.T. plan and mould for the ‘body elect’.
Even as Saul was NOT God’s desired progam, yet His helping hand remained upon Israel.
In these few verses we read about a very evil, arrogant and envious man who God appointed over Israel only because of their rejection of God’s position in their midst. The time did finally come when God said ‘enough is enough’. He was about to replace Saul with David, a man after His own heart. David was anointed and humble. Disinterested, only caring about what God wanted. This drove Saul nuts with rage and jealousy. We all know the story here.
But look at this. Saul sent his messengers to find David and take him captive and bring him to Saul so he could destroy him. This leaders closest companions had no real problem with this. But when they came upon Samuel and the prophets prophesying, the Spirit of the Lord came upon them and they spoke under the unction as well. They returned unto Saul and told him that the Holy Ghost had come upon them and they had a mini revival. Saul sent other messengers two more times with the same results. Yet we do not read where these compadres had any change of heart about their mission. Finally Saul made the journey and when he arrived the Holy Ghost came upon him as well and he prophesied all night long. What a gloroius time in the Lord. What power displayed. Yet this man never reversed his plan to kill humble David, to rid himself he thought, in so doing, of conviction.
David flees to Johnathan crying [my paraphrase] ‘ What have I done? What’s wrong with me that God’s appointed leader doesn’t like me or want me around? I have honored him. I have behaved myself in humility around him. I have surrendered all to my God…I have…” Uh Oh!! There it is. A sure plan of action for rejection by God’s anointed leader.
This has not changed, trust me. I have witnessed this first hand many times in the modern institution we call ‘church.’ The more humble you become, the more surrendered to God you strive for, the more anointing you obtain, the more proof you make of your ministry, the more cold shoulders from the hiearchy of organized religion you will witness.
So the premise of this piece is, can the true anointing be in play while a heart full of wickedness is still maintained? According to what we just looked at in the story of Saul, the answer would be yes. Can the same scenario exist today under the new covenant? My opinion would be yes, definitely.
Once I began to seek out the word on some of this and re-evaluate the whole ‘church’ scene, including the glitzy movie star preacher paradise of gospel T.V., my conclusions do tend to substantiate the affirmative on this. Anymore, it is simply a given. So out of the closet is this behaviour that it leaves little room for doubt.
Only those closest ‘messengers’ and pals of this ilk will deny my whole thesis, for they have much to lose and reconsider if they ponder to long on the topic. I could catalogue here story after story my wife and I have witnessed first hand to doubly confirm this debacle, but that may never convince those in lock-step with the charade. For those who have ears and tears, this was written. Devon Leesley