Archive for the ‘church’ Category

Walk a Mile in These Shoes

Tuesday, June 15th, 2010

I felt it good to post a comment from a past blog and then write my response here.

Mac says:
06/15/2010

Wow, spoken out of true ignorance. Churches are not perfect, they are run by human beings, but i have seen … alot more good and grace and mercy come through the church than our government. Here’s food for thought for you all. You think preachers have it made? Well consider this. Because a church is tax exempt they do not pay income or social security taxes on preachers. That means it is the preacher’s responsibility to pay both the employer’s portion and their own portion. Also unlike you desk jockeys, a church does not pay into preacher’s social security so if a preacher becomes disabled they are pretty much screwed. Add on top of that the fact that many churches do not provide benefits, like health insurance, etc. Churches get no government assistance whatsoever, that means they are totally dependent on … you to give donations to pay their bills and pay the pastor, etc. But since you are more concerned with buying a Starbucks latte or an apple Ipad than supporting your local church, alot of churches have to shut their doors. Until you have walked a mile in someone’s shoes don’t assume you know anything at all. I hope you read this article author man, you make me completely sick.

Mac,
I am a self employed individual. Every day i wake up wondering why my next paycheck is going to come from. I wonder if God will provide me some business today, and on top of that worry about my competition (unlike a church). If i were to be disabled in any way, probably the only job i could get is at a church. I started my business with no income or contracts, with no customer base or initial converts.

I do not have a health, nor retirement plan. I pay full state and federal taxes on my sales and income (unlike a church), and also have to pay for social security for myself and as an employer.

Most of the people in my situation do not have the opportunity to plead at the pulpit for more support (unlike a pastor). If i need some sort of assistance, my church fellowship might provide some temporary relief, but in the end i have to get off my ass and find a job and work like the rest of the world. It’s an enlightening opportunity to actually be a full time servant of God amongst the rest of the world.

My wife and I own 2 cars over 10 years old, and have worked hard to pay them off. I have a silverado loaded with nothing(nope not even power windows), and a toyota camry with over 190,000 miles (praying that it will go to at least 250,000). I have a 32? old school box TV, and i do not pay for cable. I have 1000 sq ft home with 1 child now and 1 on the way.

I have worked for a church doing administrative work for about a year, and was let go because of budget cuts.

I say all this not for a pat on the back or some applause, because it really is not as hard as you or I make it sound. Mac, i’ve walked miles in these shoes. Did i blame my clients because they didn’t choose my services? Did i blame God during the hard times because i was frustrated? Did i get mad at people in the Church for not giving?

All-in-all Mac, i think you just need to calm down. I’ve never seen a man of God without his needs taken care of. Regardless if you are a pastor or you squeegee sewage all day; the common denominator it all boils down to with everyone is something called faith

I couldn’t agree more with your statement about the church and government. The church is where grace should be coming from. Instead most churches are willing to pass the torch off to our government. It’s ludicrous to watch the pulpit being used to make social demands from the government. It’s also bizarre to me that people expect to see Jesus more from our government than from our Church – just look at hurricane katrina.

There’s only one way to stop the insanity, and that’s to purify the church of greed and corruption. We’re not going to stop all this mess at the polls or at the next tea party rally. Political rally’s are just band-aids on gunshot wounds. It has to come from God’s people and within the family of God.

I do not apologize if the blog article offended you or if it seemed too radical. Once again, i didn’t write my experiences to play my trumpet. I could care less about what people think.

Malachi 3:3-4
He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem Will be pleasant to the LORD, As in the days of old, As in former years.

-  jared, author of the blog

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How Churches Invest Their Money

Tuesday, May 18th, 2010

An interesting report came out on the 17th by Joshua Ritchie from Mint.com. It’s titled, “How Churches Invest Their Money”. Here’s my quick breakdown of the article

LDS – Church of the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons)

  • “current LDS assets totaled $30 billion”
  • “If LDS were a corporation, Time continued, its estimated $5.9 billion in annual revenues would have placed it midway through the Fortune 500.”
  • “Bonneville International Corporation, which controls over two dozen top radio stations across six states, is also wholly owned by LDS through Deseret Management Corporation, the church’s for-profit arm.”

RCC – Roman Catholic Church

  • “In 2005, MSNBC reported that the Roman Catholic Church owned more real estate globally than any other organization or individual on earth.”
  • “In 2001, an official report stated that the church’s real estate activities in fiscal year 2000 produced $81.7 billion in revenue on $51.8 billion in expenses: a nearly $30 billion profit.”
  • “The Boston Globe found that “contributions from worldwide dioceses” totaled $92.9 million in 2005, while individual donations made directly to the Pope neared $60 million.”
  • “In 2005, MSNBC’s Nanette Hansen even wondered if Pope Benedict XVI would “have to be a money manager as well as a spiritual leader.””

ELCA – Evangelical Lutheran Church

  • “In fiscal year 2009, the church claims to have earned $1,698,336 from “investment income”, $2,238,629 from “bequests and trusts” and another $1,003,420 in rental income. The same report lists a separate column of “temporarily restricted” revenues, on which another $1,625,000 in investment income is reported.”

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Put Our Money Where the Mouth’s Are

Tuesday, April 13th, 2010

Day after day we are constantly reminded that we are representatives of Christ. And these verses remind us what representatives ought to do:

“He laid down his life”
“a cup of cold water in My name”
“I was hungry and you gave Me food”
“undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows”
“God so loved the world that He gave”
“He has dispersed abroad, He has given to the poor”

Of course the list goes on and on. I know there are much more to being a representative of Jesus Christ than being an advocate for humanitarian causes. But let’s look at the daily things that God provides for us all day. Air to breathe, food to eat, clothes to put on, a job, income, encouragement, health. If our heavenly father gave us these things to rely on him for, then what are we doing as advocates to also provide these things to others?

God uses the necessities in life as reminders that we need him. Jesus said, “i am the bread of life, and “i am living water”. Every time you breath, it is a reminder that you need God; and every time you drink, it is a reminder that you need God. Yes, eating, drinking and breathing are all mechanisms that we need to sustain life, but since i think God could have simply designed us without these needs, i believe that God wanted us to learn something from them.

God gave us a need for nutrition to remind us that we need spiritual nutrition, not just physical nutrition. Also, we need spiritual breath, and we need living water.

Without a God that gives us food and water, what would we think of God being capable of giving us everlasting water, and living bread? So how can we minister about a God that gives us everlasting life, if this God cannot provide a much simpler task of just some clean water?

This is where our part comes in. If we are representatives of God, then our job is to do God’s work. He needs us to give that cup of cold water in his name. He needs us to give the hungry some food.

Literally, we need to put our money where the mouths are.

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When the Lord Departs

Tuesday, March 9th, 2010

I love the Old Testament. If had to choose which part of scriptures to do without i would choose the New Testament. There are some that probably do not spend much time reading and studying the Old Testament, but I believe that the Old Testament is just as relevant as the New Testament. I think i love it because the Old Testament paints a picture that explains God and his relationship with us  in such a magnificent way. One story that came to mind today is the Samson and the Philistines.

Here’s an excerpt of Samson’s story in Judges 15
“When he[Samson] came to Lehi, the Philistines came shouting against him. Then the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him; and the ropes that [were] on his arms became like flax that is burned with fire, and his bonds broke loose from his hands. He found a fresh jawbone of a donkey, reached out his hand and took it, and killed a thousand men with it.”

The stories of Samson are a man’s man type of story. As a guy i can really appreciate it. I just envision this guy with Hercules type of strength shredding the ropes off his hands, wiping out a thousand men, and then polishing his nails right after. This guy would make Rambo look like papa smurf. But then you look at Samson a few verses later and you read that as God’s strength leaves his body,  he becomes like every other mortal man.

Then she lulled him to sleep on her knees, and called for a man and had him shave off the seven locks of his head. Then she began to torment him, and his strength left him. And she said, “The Philistines [are] upon you, Samson!” So he awoke from his sleep, and said, “I will go out as before, at other times, and shake myself free!” But he did not know that the LORD had departed from him. Then the Philistines took him and put out his eyes, and brought him down to Gaza. They bound him with bronze fetters, and he became a grinder in the prison.

As sad as this story seems in the life of Samson, this relates so well to our own lives. The only difference is that it’s not physical strength when the the Spirit of the Lord is on me. I would say that we battle a thousand demons in our life every day. This means that a thousand times we need to make sure that the Spirit of God is upon us. There is no room for error or we could find ourselves enslaved and blinded.

P.S. I had intentions of making this relevant to tithing (I know you are thinking of how), but  for once I’m not going to stop there . . . Maybe tomorrow I’ll finish it.

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How Spirit Led Giving Could Transform the Church

Wednesday, November 11th, 2009

If Spirit led giving is more beneficial than tithing, then there must be an objective list of benefits to prove it. Here is a list of the positive changes that would come in result of Spirit led giving as opposed to tithing.

1. Church budgets would require more faith to operate through freewill gifts

The tithe acts as a mandated tax system, which implies that you are obligated by ‘law’ to pay it. The tithe works out great for church budgets. Granted not everyone tithes, but still the few that feel obligated to, are consistent and reliable in providing steady income for the church. Regardless of rain, or shine, utopia or apocalypse; these faithful few will tithe.

I can understand how a base salary for church budgets seems to make common sense, but at the same time, let’s look at the pitfalls. Imagine if your leaders want to build a skating rink, bowling alley, and pool hall inside your church. All they have to do is say is the spirit of God is leading them. In the mean time, your consistent tithe enables this poor stewardship because your predictable giving provides no accountability for the spending. They tactfully rely on your tithe because they bet that your fear of the . . . “curse” . . . will keep your money in their pockets. As a tither your money must go towards your home Church regardless of your feelings or desire to give elsewhere.

Imagine a church that will say “we believe that God is calling us to start a homeless ministry, and we believe that He will call others to donate without being forced to do so”? I’m sure all the church accountants will start biting their nails off. According to their faith it’s seemingly impossible to operate a Church by people who are led by the Holy Spirit.

Spirit led, freewill giving takes an extreme amount of faith to accept. Operating a ministry through a mandated tax system requires very little faith compared to spirit led gifts.

To practice a faith that believes the Holy Spirit is capable of convincing a missionary to travel to the remote parts of an African jungle but is not capable to direct others to give freely is hypocritical.

2. Many ministries not called by the Spirit will close their doors

Some have heard the old saying, “if God calls a ministry, he will pay for it”. Unfortunately, many church doors remain open today because of the imposed tax system levied upon the members. The mandated tithe guarantees the place is warm in the winter and the lights are on at night, but it does not hearts are receptive and God is welcome.

If the Spirit of God were in control of funding the ministries, then the Spirit of God would encourage us to give only to those ministries in which He wishes to work in. If you are unhappy with the financial decisions of your fellowship, then most of us are technically faced with 2 bogus decisions. One is to keep paying our tithe with regret, and the other option is to leave. This doesn’t seem like a great choice. The people of God need the liberty to give to any ministry that their heart is pleased with. Look, i don’t believe that all of us will agree with every financial decision of our church body, which means we should not violate our spiritual conscience and blindly follow a legal law.

At any given time, God’s people need the option to practice discernment when deciding which ministry is best suited for monetary support. Spirit led giving truly practices the cliche statement, that if God calls a ministry, then God will pay for it.

3. More needs would be supplied rather than wants

You don’t have to beg for givers when you see someone in a desperate fight to keep their family healthy because of a financial hardship. Within my Church fellowship, we are building homes for poor people in Guatemala. Once you hear their testimonies, and hear about their spiritual and physical struggles, many times people are anxious for the offering plate to be passed around.

On the other hand, when you look at 3-D models of the potential state-of-the-art fitness facility, many times the pastor has to preach a mini sermon on tithing prior to the offering plate being passed around. They have to lay the guilt on you and make you feel the pressure. If it’s not guilt they impose on you, then their other tactic is to get you to salivate over this nice new facility. So more than likely your desire to give is out of greed or guilt, and not out of a cheerful heart. Let me be clear . . . I’m not saying that tithing can’t be done with a right heart, or that church buildings are all bad.

Spirit led giving allows us the choice to put your money anywhere. The tithe only allows us one option – put your money in the “local storehouse” offering. The responsibility of church leaders is to distribute your tithe according to needs or wants. Many times, our leaders may do a great job, but on some occasions, your desire may be to give elsewhere.

Most churches are setup to appeal to our greed because when we walk in we expect cushioned chairs, hi-def screens, marble flooring, and fancy sight and sound. If we stop seeing these amenities, we begin to wonder where our tithe is going. We give our tithe partly because of the luxurious benefits we receive from it. When people aren’t seeing any new TV’s or equipment in the church, then we start questioning where our tithe is going. This cycle causes most of our tithe to be spent on church amenities and not on the real needs. No wonder recent giving statistics have stated that 85% of what religious organizations bring in is spent on internal operation.

4. People would pray more

Tithing is so easy! No thinking involved. No questions. No doubts. Just take your paycheck, multiply by .10, and now you have your tithe. You don’t need to pray or ask God about anything. This is the epitome of automatic Christianity.

Christ didn’t die so that we can continue to blindly follow rituals that require no communication with Him. Christ died so that he could repair the relationship between God and man. He tore the veil for a reason. If he wanted us to continue the traditions that enable automated worship, then he would have kept the veil intact in front of the holy of holies.

Spirit led giving is an opportunity for God to confront you individually about your giving, and an opportunity for you to listen. What a boring relationship would i have with my wife if all my deeds were spelled out in my vows. A romantic relationship is spontaneous, sacrificial, and creative. If you were to treat your spouse the same way you treat God with your tithe, i believe many of you would be sleeping on the couch.

It takes work, communication, and listening to understand and hear what my wife’s desires are. I give my unknown acquaintances the same fruit cake year after year for Christmas. But the reason why i can give my wife things that mean something is because “I KNOW HER“. Do you know God? Tithing is just like that stale fruitcake you give to that person year after year. The absence of a personal relationship is an excuse to forgo sacrifice, creativity, and spontaneity.

Same time, every week pagans come to their stone god and present a sacrifice. They don’t know if that’s what the Buddha wants, because he is dead and his memories are made of stone. On this note, Christians are great at pagan worship because we forget that our God is actually living as well. We have an opportunity to communicate with a living God, but instead we are satisfied with returning every week with the same gifts, even though God is looking for something else. He might as well be stone because somewhere between his lips and our ears His requests seem to hit some mortar.

Tithing can be an escape route to avoid communication with God- “I don’t have to talk to God, nor do I have to come face to face with his holiness. All i do is just sign my name on that line, and now I have one thing accomplished without even confronting God!”

We have to ask ourselves if tearing the veil to the the access of the throne room of God was actually intentional?

Spirit led giving is a great opportunity to pursue what God wants you to do with His money. Many of us hate confrontation, and even more of us hate confrontation with a holy, powerful God. Spirit Led giving requires us to counsel with God on our giving. Sure, a set standard, such as tithing, can eliminate the battle with excuses, but it cannot eliminate greed that dwells in your heart.

5. Spirit led giving does not appease the hearts of those who could afford more than 10%

Tithing kind of works like an alibi. It’s the sort of evidence you present to the defense proving that you are innocent. Not that you couldn’t have done more, but who could point the finger at you and exclaim, ‘guilty’. You paid your tithe, so you are covered.

If i believe my tithe protects me from the curse and the devourer, then why would i care to give more than 10%? But if i believed in Spirit led giving, i have no security blanket to protect my conscience from poor giving. Either I will have to ignore God and my conscience, or will need to give what God is telling me to. Tithing is not there to fall back on as a safety net.

More would be able to pay off debt

I’ve written a few blog posts already about tithing and debt, but this always needs to be reiterated. Tithing, while in debt, does not protect your testimony from poor stewardship. Actually it would just prove that you have a problem with money leaving your pockets too often. You are not a good steward if you serve God with your tithe and yet you also are a slave to debt. You cannot serve two masters.

I’d rather that you pay off debt, and learn from the guilt and embarrassment while you are empty handed as the offering goes by. Tithing does not teach good budgeting skills, nor can it promise to teach you self control. Get your budget and spending under control first, because that’s what the world will see. Then begin to enhance your giving. We are so worried about what Johnny Steeple and Mary Chapel are thinking about us in the church. The world does not need to see you giving tons of money to the church while ignoring practical stewardship principles. They are going to think you are in a cult ;)

One story i always state as a reminder to tithing while in debt. Remember the master who left 3 servants with talents while he went away. The first two servants invested their talents and gave the master more than their initial amount. The third servant buried his talent and gave all of it back to his master. The thing to remember is that the third servant, who gave 100% of it back to his master, was considered the ‘wicked’ one.

6. People would connect more closely with one another

I would consider this point more on the un-obvious side, but i believe is of crucial importance. This is one of the things that i’ve struggled with whenever i began Spirit led giving. Believing in Spirit led giving is all fine and dandy, but how do i find out where to give my money to? Certainly God wasn’t going to start appearing to me in dreams or paint a message in the sky. Praying does help to bring some ideas to mind, but that can’t just be it.

Shortly after practicing freewill giving, i began to realize that i needed to find out what other’s needs were. Before, i didn’t know about many financial needs. I didn’t really worry about it either. The church leaders were the ones with that job. I just gave them my tithe and they worried about it. But now, i have to connect with my brothers and sisters to find out their needs. I need to know how they are struggling.

I’m no counselor but most of us have something to contribute whenever we speak with one another about problems in our life. For many of us we can help by paying for someone’s gas to work, or pay for books for school . . .etc. Tithing doesn’t require us to be socially intelligent with our giving. All we have to do is drop it in the plate. There’s no need to listen to your brothers financial problems because you already gave your tithe away anyway and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Spirit led giving forces me to connect one-on-one with my brothers & sisters. I need to hear what issues they are dealing with in life. I  need to know if money would help them start up a ministry. Spirit led giving requires me to be in tune with those in my spiritual family. This also requires my senses to be on alert. I am more aware of physical needs around me now that i am free to give towards anything. I was so narrow minded prior to Spirit led giving

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Should Churches Pay Taxes or be Exempt?

Tuesday, July 14th, 2009

Churches tax exempt yes or no

I am not aware of of tax regulations in any country other than the United States. Here in the U.S., churches do not pay taxes because they are exempt. Their 501(c)(3) status prohibits them from paying some federal income taxes, property taxes, and/or sales taxes. Before we answer whether they should pay taxes or be exempt, let’s look at a quick history of tax exemptions.

Ancient History of Church Tax Exemption

The first example i have found of religious tax exemptions is found in Genesis 47:26 when the priests land was exempt from paying the Pharaoh’s tax.

And Joseph made it a law over the land of Egypt to this day, that Pharaoh should have one-fifth, except for the land of the priests only, which did not become Pharaoh’s

This passage is by no means a biblical mandate to require tax exemption upon any religious institution. This is just an example of tax exemption in world history.

There are many more examples of tax exemption in our ancient history, but let’s move forward into the medieval ages

In the medieval times the Roman Catholic Church and the English throne were in marriage with one another,  so therefore, the Catholic Church was exempt from paying taxes. The Church and the government were essentially one organization, so if the Government were to tax the Church, they would be taxing themselves.

The tax exemption that was imposed upon the Catholic Church would lay the foundation and traditions that we find in our modern laws today.

Modern History of Church Tax Exemption

The marriage of the throne and the Church is one of the main reasons our forefathers declared in our constitution, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. They wanted the Church to operate apart from the state (although the phrase “separation of Church & State” is not found in the Constitution)

Although the Church and the State no longer operate as one entity, these tax exempt laws seem to have been ‘grandfathered’ into our common laws.

David M Andersen in Brigham Young University Law Review writes, “In 1894, Congress passed the first income tax on corporations but exempted from the tax those “corporations, companies, or associations organized and conducted solely for charitable, religious or educational purposes.”

Now we see our government providing a unique status to Churches, but what is their reason for allowing this privilege? Were they afraid God was going to strike them with lightning if they didn’t? The reason for providing tax exempt status may not seem obvious.

Erik Stanley from LaTimes.com says, “In general, governments believed that churches along with other types of community groups enhanced and supplemented government services such as feeding the hungry, housing those in need of shelter and in general using private funds for public good. (Although this is a debate for another time, I note that more and more religious groups are now asking for a government bailout through the “faith-based initiative” and to keep their tax exemptions.)”

The reason why the Church has been privileged with its tax exempt status is because the government expected us to supplement the need for humanitarian services. Basically our responsibility for the welfare of the people relieved this burden off of the backs of government.

Questioning the Church’s Eligibility to be Tax Exempt

I realize that there is no official list of social qualifications that we need to maintain in order to keep our tax exempt status, but one cannot wonder why our eligibility remains as the government takes on more of our social responsibilities? Is there any form of social criteria that we have to meet in order to keep our tax exempt status other than preaching out of some religious book once a week?

If the Church does not provide for the poor, the indigent, the homeless, or the sick  do you think Korea, Japan, U.K., or Canada would want to apply for that responsibility? Of course people run to their own government for help. Listen, somebody has to help these people. I don’t care if you are a democrat, republican, or libertarian, marxist, or an environmentalist, these people need help.

We can debate about whether their situation is their own fault. We can say that they chose their own path. I am not disagreeing with you, but that isn’t an excuse for us to overlook their desperation. Their choices are never, ever an excuse for our negligence for their basic needs.

It sickens me that as the government relishes the opportunity to take on more social responsibilities while the Church gladly passes on the torch. Now that we are free from taking care of people’s needs, we can spend more money on ourselves, on our church buildings, on our programs, on our stage design, and on our sound equipment. We relish the opportunity to beautify our image while the government relishes the more Godly response. While the government is taking on the responsibility of  being a savior, and we spit in our the real Savior’s face who once said, “For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.” and also “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”

Conclusion

I’m going to say it right away – Take away the tax exempt status of the Church!

As the government takes on more and more social responsibilities, i am sick of seeing my taxes go up and up. If churches started paying property taxes, i wouldn’t doubt if my taxes would actually decrease. Believe me, i wish i could say the opposite, the problem is that the Church is extremely ill. We have been sick for a long time. Giving statistics state that the Church spends 85% of the funds it receives on internal operations and only 3% of our money goes towards aiding and ministering towards the unsaved.

Do i blame the poor for crying to the government? No Way! When they come crying to the Church, they get turned away, so where else should they go? Should they get a job? Why don’t you go trying to get a minimum wage job as a single parent. Let’s see how well you survive providing for your family while doing that?

Look. I am a registered republican. i voted for the Bush’s and McCain. I am a fiscal conservative, but i believe the Church should handle spiritual as well as social responsibilities. But the problem is that we aren’t, so i’m done fighting against social health care, and welfare. Let it happen. Republicans fight and fight about socialism this and socialism that, but we don’t do a stinkin thing about it! Until the Church gets its act together and takes care of our responsibility there’s nothing else for me to say. Right now, I am just furious! We have no right to be tax exempt!

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Is It Important to Debate Tithing?

Tuesday, June 9th, 2009

two people pulling on rope

I guess this question can be reworded to ask if it is important to debate any doctrine. Many people steer away from any debate, and i’m trying to find out if it is healthy to have this position in one’s life. The reason why i brought up this topic is because i recently confronted someone about a specific teaching he had about the tithing issue. Not to be arrogant, but my accusation torched his teaching.  Basically, he responded by saying, “I’d rather watch paint dry then ever debate anything”.

I guess this kind of bothers me that i just nailed that guy, and he won’t even concede just a little. I don’t know if i took it personal, or am just angered at his ignorance. One of my biggest flaws is that i have no patience for people, so being upset is not the right response on my end; but i still want to hear opinions about what others feel about debating. You are probably thinking in your head that i’m a little late on this question considering i’ve been debating tithing on this blog for three-and-a-half years. Well, maybe i’ve been doing it wrong? Maybe i need another approach? I’m gonna throw out some verses in the bible that talk about debating(NKJV). I highlighted a few key words in each verse. I want to hear what your comments are about this.

2 Corinthians 12:20
For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults;

Romans 1:29
being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,

1 Peter 3:15-16
15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.

Acts 17:16,17
Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols. 17Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there.

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. £From such withdraw yourself.

Acts 15:7
Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

2 Timothy 2:14-17
Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17And their message will spread like cancer.

2 Timothy 2:23-26
23But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

Proverbs 25:9
Debate your case with your neighbor,And do not disclose the secret to another;

What say ye? Is there a Godly approach to debating?

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Church Doors Closing – Good or Bad?

Monday, April 27th, 2009

church doors locked

I’m just throwing this question out there cause i’m not sure what to conclude about it myself. When church doors close because of financial hardship is it good or bad? I know some of you are thinking immediately that its bad. But think about it. That’s one less mortgage bill that has to be paid and that’s more money towards the poor, and other needs.

Let’s face it, giving statistics state that 85% of what a church brings in is spent on the internal operation of the church. Let’s put this in perspective. If Paul was called to minister to the gentiles but he spent 85% of his time with the jews, how effective would Paul’s ministry be? Let’s put this another way, if God calls us to go and teach all nations, and seek and save the lost, but we spend 85% of our resources on ourselves, how effective can we be? The truth of the matter is that giving statistics state that the church only spends 3% on directly ministering to the unsaved.

Let’s ask the question again, if only 3% of a church’s resources are going towards ministering to the unsaved is it good or bad that a church closing its doors frees up the other 97%?

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