Here is a list of all the bible verses from the Old and New Testament that are about tithing.
- Genesis 14:20 – Melchizedek comes out to meet Abraham, as Abraham gives him a tithe of the spoils of his victory.
- Genesis 28:20-22 – After the vision of God’s renewed covenant, Jacob initiates a covenant with God vowing to give him a tithe of what he receives from the promised land.
- Leviticus 27:30-32 – The specifications of the tithe is introduced into the law of Moses.
- Numbers 18:21 – The tithe is dedicated the Levites for the work in the tabernacle.
- Deuteronomy 12:5-11 – God gives instructions for what to do with the tithe once Israel crosses the Jordan.
- Deuteronomy 14:22-29 – God gives instructions on how to disperse and exchange the tithe.
- Deuteronomy 26:12-15 – God gives instructions on how Israel should sanctify the tithe before they can ask for a blessing.
- 2 Chronicles 31:5-12 – The children of Israel do what’s right under the reign of Hezekiah, and bring the tithes to the designated places.
- Nehemiah 10:37-38 – Israel obeys God and brings the tithes to the storehouse.
- Nehemiah 12:44 – Officers were appointed to watch over the tithes in the storehouse.
- Nehemiah 13:5-12 – Nehemiah cleanses the storehouse and kicks Tobiah out of the room that was designated to store the tithe. He then restores order.
- Amos 4:4 – God commands Israel to bring back the tithe and reiterates the curse that is upon them if they don’t.
- Malachi 3:8-10 – God reprimands Israel for not delivering the tithe, and reiterates the blessings and curse that would be in result of whatever decision they chose.
- Matthew 23:23 – Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for not obeying the weightier matters of the law along with tithing.
- Luke 11:42 – A parallel passage of Matthew 23:23 as Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for not obeying the weightier matters of the law along with tithing.
- Luke 18:12 – A Pharisee brags about his obedience to the law and tithing.
- Hebrews 7:5-9 – Abraham’s tithe is used to illustrate a change concerning the priesthood.
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This information is misleading in Malachi 3:10 it says Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
This is the ONLY TIME in scripture that God offers us to test Him! How awesome! It is a privilege to tithe though a struggle for us all at times…
I personally was looking for this scripture because God has brought to my attention that I have not been giving- I have been focused on my own financial weaknesses and obeying God in this way is the best way to take my eyes off of myself. God give me the strength to see your will clearly!!! -Sara T
-God however does say that he desires relationship over sacrifice so if tithing is keeping you away from God know that He does not need your money… He loves you and wants to bless you… Not just financially
Thanks for the input Sara, but of course i disagree.
The ability to prove God’s promises is not exclusive to tithing. Nor does uniqueness make the tithe universally binding. Gideon was allowed to prove God 3 times.
Interstingly, Abraham Melchizedek a tenth of someone else’s proerty, and THEN returned, what he knew was not his property to begin with, to its rightful owner. His purpose for the war was to free his nephew from his captives. Some say that the spoils were his to keep. Yes, the heathen operated from that ethic, but Abraham was not such a man, as his actions prove. What TRUE Christian would retrieve another’s property, and not retuen it to its rightful owner(s)? And yet, folks seem willing to assume the worst about Abraham. It’s also worth mentioning that Malachi was addressing a people who were still under the Law. Please read what the tithe actually consisted of. And yes, they had currency back then too.
Jacob’s tithe had a number of strings attached…certainly not an example for any Christian to follow. I challenge anyone to show me where the Law demanded a tenth of any man’s wages or salary. It was ONLY a tenth of the newborn from the flocks, herds, and a tenth of the harvest from orchards, fields and vineyards, not to mention that only Levites were authorized to collect the tithe not already consumed by the tither, before the Lord, at the appointed place.
Jesus’ rebuke of the religious leaders and their tithe, well, He was addressing a people who were still under the Law, which required tithing, which was tied directly to the temple and the Levitical priesthood. The instructions from the apostles to the Gentile churches said nothing about tithing. No epistle or other book from any of the apostles talks about tithing to organized religion, so we’re left with nothing but warps, twists, corruptions, intellectual and emotional manipulations of what is actually written in the word of God. Who can show me a verse where a field worker, a seamstress, cobbler, CARPENTER, or anyone else paid tithes of their earned currency, and remain honest in their assesment and use of scripture? Anyone?
I’m not sure if this answers your question. It seems to me that Jesus tithed his life. One only tithes when there is an understanding of how much one has been loved. It makes no sense in any other fashion unless it is used to “attempt” to bully God into giving one more stuff. I struggle not with a tithe as that is easy for me with no family, no kids, and literally not responsibilities. I struggle with the degree of how to live a resurrected life in this world and not wait for the future world. It seems to bind much more in this area then in the monetary area.
One more question. Are you a pastor of a church or not? If you were a pastor or a church, would you still feel the same way about your sheep using their tithes to help someone in need. I need a honest answer on this even if your answer is I don’t know. I think being a pastor might make you think differtly. I like the fact that you do not talk negative or sound angry inyour discussions on the parts I read . I just need to hear both sides and meditate on it and make a decision. Thank you
Mary,
I can say with 100% certainty that I feel that the sheep are free and can be called to give to others. I call it Spirit led giving. Who am I to judge what the Spirit is calling someone to do? Yes, I can exercise spiritual discernment, but my feelings have no authority over what the Spirit of God is calling someone to do. I’d rather have a congregation being Spirit led and giving all over the world then having a congregation that act like robots and automatically give to the Church because they forget how to be Spirit led.
I do believe that you have an obligation to give to those in need, but also I do feel that you have an obligation to provide for those who are spiritually feeding you as well. So, in that sense, yes, it would be good to give towards the needs of your local church as well. In the Old Testament, all this was spelled out in the law. Israel knew when to give and where to give – no questions asked. It was laid out for them, plain and simple. In the new testament, God desired a relationship with all of his people, so he gave us His Spirit to communicate with. God did not want robotic relationships with his Children, so he had to take the automatic laws out of their lives, and tithing is a robotic way of giving.
I hope I have answered your questions in a clear way. If you have any more, don’t hesitate to write back.
-Jared Bartholomew
Jared,
Wow…this was very powerful and answered my questions. i am not always able to make it to church but I always make an attempt at tithing. what i have begun to do is take my 10% out of every check and put it aside. i will then wait to be Spirit led. Sometimes I may go to any church and just drop off an envelope. Or I might give to those I know, or those whom i dont know, may need it. It feels great. My main thing is to make sure that I do not use it on myself or anything that may benefit me in anyway.
I have an “out of the box” way of looking at tithes and other spiritual matters. For instance, i beleive that tithe does not have to necessarily be money, it can be ten percent of your time volunteering at a local church or doing God’s work. what are your thoughts on that? I have been asking the Lord to guide me on this matter, sometimes it is loud and clear, other times…not so much.
Damiso
Here Jacob tries to make God give him what he wants by “enticing “Him with mammon….God does not make deals initiated by humans…or does He need to…
20
Jacob then made this vow: “If God remains with me, to protect me on this journey I am making and to give me enough bread to eat and clothing to wear,
21
and I come back safe to my father’s house, the LORD shall be my God.
22
This stone that I have set up as a memorial stone shall be God’s abode. Of everything you give me, I will faithfully return a tenth part to you.”
Here jacob states that if only and when these conditions ae met not only would he worship God but that he would “give” Him…that is why Jesus said that … for mammon influences your decisions…
24
15 “No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
That is why most Pastors/Priests cannot fathom not collecting a “basket” of money…for that is where their faith and loyaty lies…as they sneer…
No servant can serve two masters. 8 He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”
14
9 The Pharisees, who loved money, 10 heard all these things and sneered at him.
15
And he said to them, “You justify yourselves in the sight of others, but God knows your hearts; for what is of human esteem is an abomination in the sight of God.
I am particularly fond of the book of proverbs because of its impartation of wisdom through instructions. In Proverbs 3:9, it says ” Honor the Lord with thy substance and with the first fruits of all thine increase: So shall thy presses burst out with new wine.”
Samuel,
Good verse, but not included in this blog post because that is not a verse referring to the tithe.
Darrel, you obviously haven’t been reading your bible.. Read up the new testament where a lady put 2 cents as tithes to the temple and Jesus praised her..
Please correct me if I am wrong was that tithe or church offering that was put by the lady?
God is never a debter to any man. If we put in out tithe of 10% we fail to realise that he has given us the balance 90% for us as well. God works on principles and systems. He doesnt need our money but he is happy to see our obedience in doing so. Tithing is not only for an immediate blessing but its a “Eternal Investment” which is recorded in the Lamb’s Book of Life. When at that Glorious day we stand before the King of Kings in the presence of the all the people our reward will be immeasurable. Give and you will lack no good thing. Trust me i see this everytime happening in my life so how much more it will happen in yours.
Praise the Lord.
Show me a verse where it says tithing stopped…don’t give me it stopped with the law. There is no verse for this. If you say there is show it to me.
FYI- tithing started before the law.
1st you give me the verse that says tithing stopped. Then, I will show you tithing happened before the law was created
Daniel,
Tithing wasn’t commanded before the law was created. If it was, then Jacob couldn’t have freely offered it-Genesis 28:20. Abraham would have tithed on ALL of his increase to Melchizedek rather than just tithing ONLY on the spoils of war-Hebrews 7:4. Israel would also have tithed all through the years, but they had specific instructions not to tithe until they entered the promised land-Deuteronomy 12:5.
Here are a list of other commands in the OT that do not have NT verses saying they stopped- (Deuteronomy 23:2
Deuteronomy 25:5-10
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
Exodus 21:20,21
Leviticus 15:19
Leviticus 19:19
Leviticus 19:23,24
Leviticus 21:1
Leviticus 21:5
Leviticus 21:16-23
Numbers 8:24)
Daniel, look. i didn’t always believe what i do now about tithing. I was a defender of the tithe just like you were until i deeply studied the word of God. I read some books on both sides of the issue to help me understand as well. It took me a long time after realizing the truth about tithing to actually heed to it, because i couldn’t comprehend how we could have been wrong for all these years. But tradition doesn’t create truth.
2 Corinthians 9:7
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
….Tithing wasn’t commanded before the law was created?
mr. tithe, to end your doubt about tithe i want you to read with a cautious heart to this simple paragraph.
let’s read:
Mathew 6:10
10your kingdom come, your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
what do you mean “on earth as it is heaven?” did you guess? here it is.
it means, long before he imposed the law IT HAS BEEN PUT UP FIRST IN HEAVEN!
IS tithe a will of God?
if it is so, then the tithe has been imposed in heaven long before on this earth.
that’s why in num 18 says:
Numbers 18:29
You must present as the LORD’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.
it is the best and holiest!
i never encountered such that holy to the extreme above God! but just to be laid waste and do away with the law by the lawless teachers from darkness.
which among the holy are the HOLIEST aside from this tithe?
I’am glad that there are still sites that are talking about God despite of all the dificulties and crisis our WORLD is experiencing…I am glad that you don’t lose your faith in God despite all that..
I just wanted all the people to know him not only in name but also to what he have done in our lives..Don’t lose faith!
-Denise
Tithe, Daniel. You all have confirmed an issue I struggled and still sometimes with, for years. It is hard to really convince people otherwise who are so self assured that they’re doing the right thing. I think most ministers view, and harp on tithing as a collateral to ensure a salary at the end of the month. I surely believe that giving and receiving by faith is what God expects of Pastors. While I don’t condemn anyone who chooses to tithe, I think it should be a personal decision and not a result of a mandate.
tithing is much better than a 401K.
God is faithful…The bible says He will rebuke the devourer and its true….you cannot beat giving God or supporting His kingdom..I have been a tither for a very long time and have witness the goodness of God through giving
im so glad i have found this site……God did say test me in this God him self say he is a God that can’t LIE….so this time around i am trusting him all the way. Im taking him at his word!!!!!!!!! MALACHI 3:10 and if he never blesses me again i will always say thank you,
Dear friend,you can receive financial blessings and all Gods promises by simply asking Him and excercise your faith that you have received what you have ask for.You dont have to earn your blessings.If one person breaks the tithing law in the old covenant the whole nation of Israel was cursed.Thats why Jesus took away the curse of the law when He died.Malachi 3:9(NLT)The blessing you are looking for is a person name Jesus and He gives all his promises to you for free.Old covenant blessings was based on the law,new covenant blessings is based on Grace(means you can not earn it)Remember the verse that says by Grace you are saved not by works lest any may boast.That includes our finances too.
Dear friend,
Do not take my word for it but study these scriptures and see what Holy Spirit teaches you. I want to be careful for as James 3:1 says….Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
It appears that financial blessings along with many other blessings found in the New Testament are not part of salvation. Salvation is free and can not be earned by observing the law. It is clear that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, praise the Lord, but in no way does it say the all the blessings are automatic given with salvation.
Even our healing that has been paid for by the blood of Jesus is accessed through confessing our sins one to another. (James 5:16)
Read about those who enter heaven by escaping the flames (1Co 3:15), and those who teach others not to follow laws will be least in the kingdom of heaven (Mt 5:19) read what God said to the born again Christians in the New testament church about overcoming (Rev Chapter 3 & 4).
Read about running the race (1Co 9:24-27 Heb 12:1),
1Co 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.
26 Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air.
27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
There is no way that Paul is telling the Christians in Corinthians to compete for salvation(as that is who he is writing to) he has already made it clear that it is through faith that salvation is received, so what is he talking about. My suggestion is that he is talking about spiritual meat and not spiritual milk.
Heb 5:12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
Heb 5:13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
1Pe 2:2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,
Study the words of Jesus and his father on reward for Christians Mt 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. Re 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.
Spiritual Meat can be found in chapters like Matthew 25
I am amazed at how many people do not understand the tithe. As well as myself once upon a time. Just read your bible, and when you have a question, take it to your church and ask them. I have witnessed in my own life the reward from being a faithful, and cheerful giver. I have no regrets, never thought of it as a requiremnet, or anything negative. All I am is because of God. Everything I have is because of God. You better beleive I am going to give back whatever I can, whenever I can. I sure can’t take it with me so why wouldn’t I be a good Christian and help others now that are in need. Our church is overflowing with cheerful givers, and we help many. Gods presence is also overflowing in our church. He is pleased with us and He shows it often. Have Faith and read your Bible. N
FCC Attendant,
Your support of tithing is a good example of how errors go unchallenged in the Church today. Just because tithing sounds good, does good, seems right; doesn’t mean it is biblical. I agree that everything we have is because of God, but how can that be a rule by which we should accept the minimum enforcement of tithing? If everything belongs to God, then whose to stop any pastor from requiring all of your money?
By all means, let’s give sacrificially, cheerfully, liberally; and let’s do an excellent job of helping those in need. But our job is to also rightly divide the word of truth. Tithing has no place in the Spirit-led Church under the authority of the New Covenant.
The tithing law was a guide used to fund the Old Testament religious institution. So why should the funds continue to come from the tithing law when there’s clearly a new covenant and a new guide?
- jared
i have read with great interest the opinion of others on the subject of tithing. but if i understand the bible correctly, the idea of tithing had to do with offerings of grains, bread, wine,etc which were later given to the poor.so my question is why do the pastors of today stress for the tithe to be financial. why don,t they ask their members to bring offerings such as food, clothes and give to the many orphans,widows and homeless.i also understand the need for church members to contribute financially to the running of the church but shouldn’t it be one’s choice as to how much they should contribute? why should some pastor dictate how much a member should give? why is it that those same pastors are the ones who owns million dollar mansions, multiple SUV’s, yachts etc. do they tithe as they preach their members to do
lilly, first of all tithing has nothing to do with those materials in this world. if we expand our mind to the truth tithe is really your heart to sacrifice to God. yes, it is another sacrificial laws of God that prevented us from sinning of IDOLATRY! because out of the heart comes out our Lust that destroys our integrity with God. and that lust would be your idol that will block your way to God. let’s admit it by this, what things that we cherish about after a long time of works? it is certainly the wages from our labor! but Paul said the loved of money is the root of all evil. which mean it can be an idol to you the lust in you towards that money. it is not the money but a lust after the money. so in order to cast it out this ever cherish thing in our heart we must sacrifice it to God by giving his tenth as a law. he never wanted the whole but the first small fraction of a 1/10. thus the law stated love God first! and the rest love thy neighbor which is you who needs to sustain life.
Thank you Willis
I have glanced at your post. Please I request friend that that you would answer some questions directly when you have time. So Willis Friend Must Christians give 10% of their money to the local church or be in Sin?
If 10% money tithing is not a sin question then there is not much reason to debate becase it would then be voluntary.
I have read your post and I wanted clarity of what you think.
I believe that 10% food crops tithing was not voluntary for the old testement Jews and all priest giving in the new testement is voluntary. If giving is voluntary for all Christians who are priest, then how can our giving be called tithing?
Christ in US, Christian Brethren priests!
Thank you for posting friend I will read your post in depth later.
i’m glad and thankful for your remark about tithe.
you asked me if whether to tithe is sin or not? the solution can be found in Mal 3.
8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
“But you ask, ‘How do we rob you?’
“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse..
opposite to what Russel said that it was intended for the priest and the nations israel but he never take to notice of the word MAN in v8. like in Gen 1:26,
26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
out of these two paragraphs who was this MAN that God has been accussng of?
apart from this analogy of two word MAN, the tithings were not part of the old covenant ever since.
after Adam had rejected the covenant with God, abel sacrificed his first ofspring from his livestock.
before Abraham received God’s covenant through circumcision he gave his tenth to the high priest of God.
20 And blessed be [f] God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”
Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
now the most important evidence of its lifetime existence i noted here that the covenant of God was nullified when he allowed other nations to conquer israel after they turned themselves to idolatry LONG before jesus was born.
they ceased to exist as a kingdom and became a part of the Roman provinces.
but in mathew 23:23 stated:
You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
a remembrance from the word of jesus that the tithe was still stand even the kingdom was not in exist anymore.
i would say Russel lost his way to explain this kind of analysis about the tithing laws in those events making the tithe not part of the old covenant or even in the new covenat of jesus christ.
the word MAN was in general form written by the prophet Malachi to clear the tithes of ownership in a selective form.
yes! the levitical priesthood has been ceased to exist temporarily but take this into account that the priesthood has been transferred back to Melchizedek as the first initiator of the tithe command through jesus christ.
Willis are you saying that for a Christian not to give 10% of their money to a local church is a sin? Your answer was complex because now all Christians are priest. In the Old testement the levites got the food tithes and then gave ten percent to the priest. The priest and levites were the final partys to eat the tithes and store them for the poor.
If we transfer this Old testement concept to New testement priest who is to say that some priest can collect the tithes and Other priest are to be paid the tithes. Then there is also the question of money which was never required as a percentage for the Jews. If all Christians can collect the tithes as priest why should they not simply do their own ministries to the poor. No If we are all priest
Dueteronomy 14:26
Buy whatsoever your soul lusteth after or wine strong drink that you may eat before the lord
Willis if you can friend please explain how all Christians being priest that some must be givers of money tithes and others collectors of money tithes.
Willis I will be quite surprised if you anwer many of my questions with straighfoward anwers. I love that you have the boldness to debate but I hope you will cut to the chase.
If we are all priest is not tithing illogical. Jesus and the Diciples were Jews living under the law that was the goverment. When Jesus talked about tithing being good it was similar to the statments of Jesus about paying taxes.
Willis do you believe that the tithes of Moses were voluntary? I do not. Anyways friend Willis please explain who can recieve the money tithes and who cannot recieve the money tithes and where should money tithes go?
The whole Idea of giving to God is complex. Is all money given in love for Jesus by Christians blessed giving. In the money tithe traditions most giving shuld go to a local church. I dissagree. If one desired to homeschool ones children they would have to sacrifice huge amounts of personal income to keep ones children out of public schools.
I do not believe in required money tithes for Christians and if I did I would have many Questions. Should I money tithe after I have paid my bills or taxes? Can giving to missiionaries constitute an acceptable money tithe. Is Buying Christian films or helping to pay for somones wedding an acceptable money tithe. Is finacially supporting ones parents or family an acceptable money tithe?
If a parent wanted to send their children to Christian Schools would that constitiute an acceptable money tithe in your Book. What about if a Christian Wanted to give money to a local ministry to the homeless would that constitute an acceptable money tithe?
Willis freind If we attempt to merge an Old testement doctrine with Grace we come up with a system that is far more compecated than the Old Covenant. What do you think?
the line said in Mal 3 “how will a man rob God?” dictates the obligation given to each one for God. the word man as it is writen was in a general form and not in a selective form to say that it was allegedly for israel. no! because the tithe was not a part of the old covenant to end after the old covenant collapsed in 2kings book.
jesus taught us to tithe in a new spiriual form equiped of its spiritual elements required to the commandment keeping.
Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
if the local churches practiced the old way of tithng system not governed by the holy spirit then the chances are their tithes were not probably acceptable to God.
Luke 18
10?Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
the true tithe givers are those believers who were guided by the holy spirit of God.
mathew 23:23
But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
since you asked me of importance i will ask you how many church did jesus build?
friend, you forgot to note of what are those tithes law imposed in the old anyway? tell me why did God choose to have tithes imposed instead of freewill givings? don’t you know that the king of israel was God and if he were a king in that kingdom then his tithe is his Royal tribute compared to Caesar’s.
Matthew 22:21
“Caesar’s,” they replied. Then he said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”
if Caesar’s tax is given in compulsory then it should be done likewise to God!
simple logic.
Here is a novel brave freinds who reply and read I love you all
Questions for Willis and Everyone thank you all for your patience reading arguments and discussing the word for Jesus! Willis I have read some of your other post you have certainly studied. Friend you stated that giving to God should be compulsory for Christians. What do you do with this scripture?
Let every man set in his heart what he should give….. Not by compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Co 9:6-7). Is not set in your heart opposed to any tithing system? Is Set in ones heart is voluntary is it not? Abrahams gift to Melchez was voluntary the only tithes worth debating are the ones that are compulsory. Are Christians free will givers or under compulsion?
Not by compulsion……. Any argument for giving compulsory money tithes for Christians seems to contradict this verse stated by Paul. If the Idea that All Christians are Priest is comingled with these verses then any New Testament compulsory tithing system seems illogical. To whom from whom who is exempt where can these new money tithes be spent or eaten? Remember I do not believe that compulsory money tithes for all believers in God has ever existed. Who were exempt in the Old Testament friend Willis and who is exempt today?
Willis you are brave and thoughtful. Willis you have shown patience answering some questions and I will continue to ask you and everyone believing in compulsory money tithes to local churches many questions to bring clarity. The following long post contains many Questions for you and everyone agreeing with compulsory 10% to the local church tithe doctrines. The questions are not to mock anyone but I am lovingly questioning all who preach Jesus because challenging in Jesus is a high degree of respect and love. Friend Church Money tithing is too complicated. Freewill priest giving exactly fits the New Testament. How dose freewill giving hurt the cause of Jesus. One only has to look at most television preachers on the TBN network to see how mandatory tithing breeds entitled preachers Just like the Entitled leaders of all world governments throughout history. Christian leadership avoids entitlements and strives to become the meekest, humblest and most self sacrificing. Preachers demanding money through a money tithe system makes it easy to preach the gospel for money. What do you think about super rich preachers asking for money for their ministries from the poor?
I am an African American Christian Conservative who believes that big governments often take away individual rights. Are local preachers entitled to spend 10% of the money of Christians in their fellowships? This is a fundamental issue in the debate of Church Tithing. My Republican and Protestant beliefs lead me towards small government preist authority. In the same way tithes in evangelical Churches diminishes Priest in Jesus Individual Athority.
My state of Califorina takes taxes and there is so much fraud waste and abuse. Christian Schools give kids good education at one third the price of the Big government state. However many local fellowships demanding 10% are doing a similar thing which may be worse. They are squashing individual Christian liberty and increasing Preacher authority while diminishing the witnessing of individuals. Big governments fail the most in areas that individuals can do themselves. A preist can witness and spend money to help the poor so why can’t priest bypass his local fellowship and get ministry of feeding the poor or spreading the gospel in the way that priest feels lead by Jesus. Willis do you agree with my small government theories of ministry lead by priests? Why cant priest send their kids to Christian schools as a way of giving money to God. Of course they can in a free will giving sysem but in a compusary money tithe system they are sinning. What do you think about this dillima Willis friend?
Are you or have you ever been a paid leader in a tithe teaching church. I once was but I never told others to tithe to me or the local church. I taught that Christians could bypass the offering plate on Sundays and give to missions, the homeless; give Christian gifts to their families buy Christian music pay for Christian Marriage Counseling. Even when I used the words tithe to describe giving I used Deuteronomy 14:26 to explain the concept that Christian giving to Jesus can be done anywhere if it is lead by the spirit Do you Agree Willis. Now I will present many more Questions and do not feel rushed to answer but I love your answers because they show passion. Please describe the shape of Christian giving in light of these many Questions. Don’t answer them all Just give you’re giving constitution. I think by answering giving dilemmas your giving shape will look in practice like mine. However were we differ please give clarity.
Willis you are using math to demonstrate that the demanded tithes of Moses were 10% Every tenth animal Idea means that if one had nine animals the tithe was zero and if one had 19 animals the tithe was less than 10%.
If one had no land then there was no food tithe to be paid. I never seen a tithe of fish for fishermen or a commanded tithe for Jews outside of Israel. At any rate the Old Testament seems to present a complicated law which amounted to many percentages for different people and going to exact distinct places. Where do you disagree friend and where do we agree?
What do you do with the principal of eat the tithe of strong drink and Wine to eat and rejoice before the lord. This is the hardest question that is almost always avoided by tithe preachers. How can Christians eat the tithe today of Strong drink and wine? Eat the tithe is found many times in the Old Testament but this is almost never preached. Maybe it would complicate things for Preachers who feel that they are entitled to other priest money. What is your answer friend? Willis how many tithes were there in the Old Testament and what was the total percentage.
If Christian giving is not by compulsion then is it not voluntary. Also Willis the Jews had distinct people entitled to receive the food tithes and there were exact things to do with these food tithes by people the Levites and Priest. Eventually they ate the food tithes and the poor were exempt from the food tithes if they did not own land in Israel. Where did the New Testament say that some Priest may receive and collect money and other priest in Jesus may only give money because of their position?
Willis to sum up some of your arguments Friend you describe Numbers 18 and Dr Russle as wrong mathematically. I will look into this. However you describe Martin Luther and the early Protestants as wrong if you are correct. Additionally, all Christians are priest so how can tithe system be instituted for Christians.
Thanks for your patience with another argument. In the New Testament the Jewish Christians living in Israel were already paying their food tithes throughout the New Testament writing. It was the law for them. No where do you see Jesus asking for a tithe to himself or do you see his followers asking to collect a tithe. Paul asked for support for himself and others. However Paul asked. Willis I believe you are correct that the food tithes of the Old Testament were compulsory. I am waiting for proof that there is compulsory giving for Christians to certain entitled people and to be used in certain places in certain ways like the Old Testament food tithes.
If all Christians with Christ in them are priest then how can such a system exist? Priest are free to minister as the spirit leads with their money… Buy whatsoever your soul lusteth after wine or strong drink to eat and rejoice before the lord Jesus! Deuteronomy 14:26
Christ in US!
i’ve been researching all the details of where does this giving out of freewill in the christian world had come from. from these hard works i’ve found that jesus came was not to introduce another law for his believers but to restore the laws of moses. when at that time the Herodian jews were corrupting the temples and bringing in the traditions of their forefathers after their captivity. they were totally cut off from the real teachings handed down from generation to generation type system.
let’s recapt one of the examples of jesus in his lifetime with his detractors.
8Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” 9At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.
The day on which this took place was a Sabbath,
10and so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”
john 5
11But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”
12So they asked him, “Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk?”
is carrying a load during the sabbath a sin in moses time?
God and only him can read the heart of man if his motives are for his greed.
let’s compare in Numbrs 15
32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day.
33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly,
34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.”
36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.
the real teaching of the sabbath is make it holy without doing your pleasure or your businessess for a living because the sabbath was not designed to work in order to live but of commerating his creation by resting on his day.
so which of these men carry the most sin by the bible standard?
the one who carried the mat or the one who gathered woods?
don’t you know that it was jesus who made the sabbath and spoken to the israelites about the guiding rules required in that day.
……”Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.” this word came from his mouth was the same mouth when he order the other man be killed by gathering woods.
are there some sort of injustice practices in the commandment of jesus?
no! the man who carried the mat was ordered by him because of MERCY!
unlike the other man who gathered woods for a daily needs purposes.
so who among the two was right?
was it jesus who ordered th man to carry the mat or his detractors who were against all kinds of load were ban on the sabbath day?
jesus ofcourse! for he came to restore the lost teachings of moses to them.
Mathew 5
17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
…until heaven and earth disappear, means at the end of times that teachings of moses be preached even after this fold.
now where does this giving out of freewill had come from?
it can not be from jesus for he came here to restoe the laws of moses.
what was written in 2 cor 9:6-7?
v7 each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
friend, Paul wrote to the corinthians for a purpose as part of his wooing the churches in the Roman world.
what was the purpose?
read throughly in Acts 11:27-30
v27 During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch.
v28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a SEVERE FAMINE would spread over the entire Roman world (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)
v29 The disciples, each according to his ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea.
v30This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.
again what was the purpose of his soliciting fund from the churches?
BECAUSE OF SEVERE FAMINE!
drought or dry spell that makes everyone life in hardness that happened in Judea. thats why HE WAS SENT TO SOLICIT THE FUNDS FROM OTHER CHURCHES.
how could anyone in Judea tithe at this circumstances?
and if there is any that wont feed a multitude of people in that area
but the interesting part here is that Paul did not teach the christians to SUBSTITUTE GIVING SYSTEM TO TITHING LAWS.is there any verse that says he substituted the tithe law to giving? none my friend. your doctrinal interpretations were all unfounded.
the scritpures does not teach to compel anyone to tithe of his income, not even jesus is forcing us to obey him. just remember this thing that God created in us a mind to think freely and never interfere in anyone’s choises made by them, not even adam when he choses to become satan’s property. God had shown only the way to eternal salvation and damnation for the people to choose from. when the covenant was made ratified it is naturaly for both party to become commited on what was stipulated in the cov. the same you will find in the new cov. when jesus spoke of “if you want to enter life keep my commandment”. it can be liken into a contract in which it stipulates the performance and the conditional promises upon performance.
but the tithe was not a part of the covenant. to prove of my claimed can be found in Mal 3:8 “Will a MAN rob God?” the verse does not say Israelites or the Jews but MAN which is in GENERAL form. the same Man can be found in Genesis “Let us make MAN according to our likeness” and therefore excluded from the old cov. that was ratified and recorded in Exodus at very long time span.
so if the old covenant disannulled it does not mean that the tithe will likewise disappear. this is liken as if the tithe exist only as long as human is living. we are bound into it because we belong to a human group or not unless we decladred ourselves as animal where Charles Darwin wrote about his theory of evolution.
some question to be considered:
1. whats the difference between tithe and giving?
tithe is the commandment of God and while giving is an essential element of the holy spirit of God.
the holy spirit of God was rendered as our “comforter” and not to substitute the tithing laws. it empowers our mind to obey the laws heartily.
2. does the tithe cease to exist because the temple was abolished?
it is true that the physical temple has been thrown down and abolished during the siege of the Roman empire. but what was the scripture said:
read the revelation 21:22
v22 ” I did not see the temple in the city, because the Lord God and it’s lamb are it’s temple”.
in some of the writings of Paul (do the research) where you can find that the church of christ is the temple of God and therefore the tithe is entitled to it’s recipient.
3. does abraham give his tenth of his spoil and not considered it as tithe?
according to Hebrew 7:5
“Now the law requires the descendant of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people that is there brothers even though their brothers are descended from abraham.”
…read very carefully of what the remainder of the sentence.
v6 “this man however did not trace his descent from levi, YET he collected a tenth from abraham and blessed him…”
…if Levi’s tenth can be rendered as tithe therefore abrahams tenth can also be rendered as tithe too.
v10 “because when melchizedec met abraham, levi was still in the body of his ancestor”.
what does Paul mean of what he wrote?
Levi wont be able to collect the tenth from abraham because he was not yet born at that time, it was Melchizedec so as not to break this law, performed the same duty as priest in collecting his tenth for God.
4. who is now our Melchizedec?
Jesus occupied the office of Melchizedec and therefore he is now our high priest.(Heb 7:17)
5. there is nothing in the scriptures that Jesus collects the tithe?
the financial of the church is well understood by both the Jews and the Gentiles and never been an issue even in the caiapas trial except the tax of Caesar. Jesus was raised in the custom of the Jews and never want to build his church away from the custom of his fore father.
if you are convinced that is a tenth a not a tithe then tell me where did he base his calculations of tenth? there must be an origin of everything.
Lets analyze:
Mathew 17:22 “is it right to pay taxes to Caesar?”
“…then he said to them give to caesar to caesar’s and to God to God’s.”
how do you understand this statement of Jesus?
does he encourage the Jews not to tithe?
each of the subject represent the kingdom in which he ruled respectively. one is physical and one is spiritual.
financing laws at that time were fully understood by the Jews. both tax and tithes were in full force.
the analysis of the statement: “Give to caesar and to God”
the word “Give” mentioned only once that gives the meaning if we pay to Caesar then it goes the same to God. if its an obligation then it goes likewise to others. if its a tax then it would be a tithe.
there is one interesting that we found here that God and his kingdom requires the tithe for his administration. a Royal kingdom requires a Royal tribute.
so Jesus demonstrate the analogy of these figures.
Another explanation of tithe to be added here is that the tithe, if we pay this thing to God’s first. We are sacrificing the very cherish thing in your heart that will keep you from “idolatry”. This thing is almost identical to what the Lord has done to Abraham by trying his faith if he could sacrifice his only son to him. Anything that blocked the way between you and God is idolatry in nature. One example of idolatry is “too much love of money is the root of all evil” what evilness does Paul speak?
If the law of tithe is to become a burden or a yoke of bondage. then why would the God of LOVE placed this terrible law on his chosen people? it is really hard to comprehend. Isn’t ? that God on how do you picture him accordingly can be liken into a wild beast devouring his victim without mercy during the old covenant times and came to be tamed only in the new covenant. have you realized that? Can anyone tell me what is God’s master plan on human kind?
there is no question to ask about whether is it bad to give or to help the poor. But to make the giving in place of the tithing is what astounds me. infact giving is something what the people should posses as one of the wonderful traits of a Christian faith. the earliest time of the apostles encourage every believers to be a cheerful giver but remember they never ever said not to tithe, that is one of the true facts that should be established here. Tithe or the first fruit of God has been implemented even in thetime of adam or prior to the creation of man and the ratification of the old covenant.
Would you believe that the angels of God do have the tithing system?
“’thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it in heaven’’
If the tithing law is one of the will of God then we can assume that the angels in heaven performs the same law as it is on this earth. You may also to wonder that kingdom of Israel at the time of david is a typical type of the kingdom of God in a fleshly form.
These tithings system has something to do with the government of God. Financing it and at the same time teaching us to be a giver. For the royal kingdom requires a royal tribute.
When the apostles of Christ started to preach the kingdom of God the only available scriptures at the time was the old testament. If giving will replace the tithing laws then this should be supported by the old testament scriptures just like Christ when he was introduced to the converted jews.
There are four books of the new testament outline the life and teaching of Christ but even one i could not find that he teaches the early disciples to no more tithes. it is a sad fact that many of you never realize that Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity. I would say it that Paul will never intend to overwrite the teaching of jesus.
In the book of acts the economic situation in the Roman world mostly compose of agricultural product in the time of Paul was really devasted by a severe dry spell and they could hardly make a living. Paul wasn’t able to push anyone to tithe for survival of the church. In order for the gospel to move on he resorted their finances to giving. Thus putting into a halt the paying of tithe not because of what Paul’s order it but of themselves the tithes payer. Thats the call of the nature cause them not to tithe. You’re seems to be out of logic here If you are out of job and your country will demand to tax you. How would you react on this?
If giving is the essence to earn your salvation then you should also consider that the religion of islam when the ramadan time came they chose the day to celebrate their holiday by giving what they can to the poor. it would be unfair for them when Christian deserves the right to be saved when righteousness can be found outside the Christian faith.
giving is one of the fruit of the holy spirit as what Paul said in his book. this fruit will empower the human spirit to fullfil the laws of God. just love is fullfiling the laws. sad to say if you withhold your tithe, you are robbing God and that transgresses the law of stealing. it goes contrary to the direction where the law is heading.
Why doesn’t Paul mention tithing in his letters? (from another source)
Realizing that all Scripture was inspired by God and profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and that the only Scripture available at the time were the books we know as the Old Testament,
Paul did not consider it necessary to repeat all of God’s laws in his letters.
His letters contain answers to specific issues and were not written as a new set of laws to replace God’s instruction found in the earlier books of the Bible.
Why didn’t Paul take tithes from the Corinthians? Is this the New Testament model for ministers?
Some in Corinth were among the apostle Paul’s most vicious detractors.
In 1 Corinthians 9:1-23 he defended his ministerial role and argued that he and Barnabas had the right to receive financial support from the Corinthians for their service to the Church. Even though they had this right,
Paul explained they didn’t exercise it because they were concerned that it might “hinder the gospel” (verse 12). He didn’t want to be accused of greed or wanting to be supported by the members there. To avoid such accusations, he took no financial support from them.
To support himself financially, Paul worked as a tentmaker (Acts 18:1-3).
In 2 Corinthians 11:7-8
Paul reflects on his decision: “… Was this my offence, that I made no charge for preaching the gospel of God, humbling myself in order to exalt you?
I robbed other churches—by accepting support from them to serve you” (Revised English Bible).
He then explains that brethren in Macedonia paid the expenses that he could not meet while in Corinth:
“If I ran short while I was with you, I did not become a charge on anyone; my needs were fully met by friends from Macedonia; I made it a rule, as I always shall, never to be a burden to you” (verse 9, REB).
Paul’s decision not to take financial support from the Corinthians was an unusual situation prompted by the accusatory attitudes of others.
Peace and Grace to you all,
I thank God that many christians are being set free from the lies and manipulations that are taught by many teachers and pastors around the world because of their pursuit of money.
I like to point out to those who are promoting and selling tithing,to explain why Paul who kept the law and even kill christians because of the law said that the law of Moses enslaved the Jews (Galatians 4:24-30NLT)
One of the arguements that tithers and pastors who promote tithing,is Abraham tithing 10% of the spoil of war. Why are they not teaching that we all need to be circumcised and we can have more than one wife or concubines?. Since Abraham is the father of faith why are we not allowed to kill those who steal from us or profit from defrauding other people
Bless all of you,
after reading all of the posts, and i understand both sides of the issue, i don’t remember it saying in the bible that we have to give 10%, yes in the old testament everybody had to give 10% of their crops and stuff like that and God promised blessings if they did and curses if they didn’t, and yes the law is gone and we have the NT, but i feel like i Tithe as part of my worship to God, i do it cause i want to, and not all Pastors preach tithing so they can have million dollar homes, my pastor preaches tithing, and he has a nice car and a nice home, but it is not a huge home and a Ferrari, and if you giving your tithe to homeless people, then by all means go where there spirit is leading you, but i will still continue to give my tithe to my church and anything else i give whether it be to the ministry i attend or to homeless people on the street that will be an offering… and i know God will bless me, he has been blessing me so much since i started paying my tithe, and hasn’t stopped yet, why should i just say that i can handle it on my own and get back into the things i used to… on a last little note, if you don’t wanna pay your tithe and your not giving it somewhere, your just keeping it, STOP BEING GREEDY, yes we all have troubles and need money but trust me from experience, since i have been tithing God has blessed me with all i need to get by… so take it as you will… God bless all of you
Peace to you all,
Hi,thank God that we can discuss this issue on this web site freely without being branded or labelled as “greedy”.
Please,if you are tithing and you beleive that you are tithing because you need to support your church thats fine, but do not point your finger at other christians and judge them on how they give their finances when you pick and choose which law you keep and which one to ignore for your so call “blessing” thats stupid.
People that are blessed,do not walk around and try to impress others on how blessed they are.
Humility says to take the lowest seat,Jesus said in (Mathew 11:29)to come and LEARN from HIM for HE is LOWLY and HUMBLE at heart.
Jesus is the vine and we are the branches,without the vine WE CAN NOT DO ANYTHING,including giving our finances to serve God.
If you are a gentile, without Jesus blood in the new covenant, God said in (Numbers 18:1-3) if you go near the temple where the Levites and the high priest were serving God,HE WILL KILL YOU.And that is not negotiable,that warnning is still intact today (Hebrews 8:4)confirms that.
If the earthly sanctuary was still around where the Levites and the high priest were serving God and you go near it with your tithes or offerings and you are gentile the bible teaches that “GOD WILL KILL YOU”.
Please do not put yourselves under the law or you will have to keep the whole Mosiac law with all the cleansing and offering ceremonies that enslaved the Jews.We can not pick and choose which law to keep and which one to ignore thats why Jesus died to cancel the law and free all of us first the Jews then the gentiles.
Learn to abide in Christ first then you will be set free from all the legalism that satan is throwing at you.
Grace to you all.
Hi, We are a christian family and we tithe what we can. We have alot of debt from previous mistakes that keep us very strapped. We give what we can every week. Am I less of a Christian because I cannot afford to give 10% without loosing our house or not making a payment???
sorry if my last entry made it seem like i was calling someone greedy, the way i meant it was if you have the money and you are keeping it cause you don’t want to give it away, then you are being greedy… in no way did i mean to call anybody greedy, and im and deeply sorry if offended anybody… but i heard a pastor on the radio talking about tithing one time, and he said that God deserves our first fruits, and the way he does it (which is the way i also do it know) is once he got paid, the first thing he would do would take out his tithe and not spend it but put it away for the church, then he would pay his bills, and buy food and stuff he needed, then if he had extra money he would do as he pleased. but i also feel like when you have a lot of bills staring you in the face its hard, cause you don’t wanna get behind or go default, if in your heart you wanna give the tithe and your having trouble, then ask God to show you how to manage your money and he will do so, the bible says paraphrasing, if anyone lacks wisdom, let him ask God for it. so be willing to trust God with the big and the small things, ask God for the wisdom with your money and he will give it to you like he did it with me, that is how im able to pay on all my bills and still make it week to week with only Gods help… cause ill confess its not by my smarts (or lack their of, lol) that i just randomly knew how to manage my money good, cause two years ago when i was making pretty good money at my job, i never paid my bills i went out messing around with my friends i probably killed more money than the cost of my bills every month now… and now that i got shorter shifts at work cause the economy, now all of a sudden im able to give to God what he deserves and pay my bills and still make it week to week for gas… so do like the bible says about giving the first fruits in Malachi and test God on this, from my experience he will open the floodgates of heaven and pour out blessings on you…. God Bless you all
Hi,
Please read this verse, 2Corinthian 8:11-12NLT and meditate on it until you are free from all condemnation.IT CLEARLY SAYS “GIVE WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD”
If you cant afford to give anything its ok.WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, AND BY GRACE GOD STILL LOVES YOU UNCONDITIONALY AS IF YOU GAVE HIM A BILLION DOLLARS.
Pay your bills first, Jesus does not want you to try to prove anything to Him.Lying to your creditors is the same as murder or adultry in Gods eyes.
If the Holy Spirit of God lives in your heart,He will reveal to you what it means to be saved by GRACE.
GRACE means ALL HIS ENABLEMENT 100%,wisdom,knowledge,revelation,provision,humility,strength,boldness,ability, power, love,etc…
Learn to ABIDE IN HIS GRACE then you will find rest and peace that Jesus promised us.This also mean TO ABIDE IN CHRIST.
Peace to you all.
Many people now in days say that they do not have enough to give the 10% but that is after they spent money buying things they did not need.
When ever we get our pay we take care of everything else and and if there is some left , we give to God. We make excuses not to give what belongs to God . If we under stand that what we have it was God who gave it to us,then lets be thankfull and give back what He requires . So many of us confuse tithe and offering. God is asking for both . To have a place
to meet to worship God has expenses just like your house , your car or a gym that you go to.
It has a pastor , electricity bills ,water bills , and so on and so on . Try to tell the bank that you will pay them what ever you can for your house mortgage or with your electricity bill . Trust in God , make Him your first priority and He will bless you abundantly .
Hi,
I am just wondering if those who pay their tithes to their churches, know that if you really sit down and study your bible about tithing, you will discover that some pastors and teachers have delibrately mislead christians about the LAW OF TITHING.
Poor people and Gentiles were not commanded or ask to tithe.PLEASE READ THIS AND STOP BEING SO PROUD-( Numbers 14:24-26)
You think that now you are a christian you are allowed to change Gods LAW or MOSIAC LAW because you are born again ?
(NUMBERS 14:25 )NKJ says TO SELL OR TURN IT TO MONEY AND BIND UP THE MONEY IN THY HAND.
That means that God did not ask Hebrews to tithe MONEY.It was only FOOD AND ANIMALS RAISED WITHIN THE GATES OF ISRAEL.
NOWHERE in the bible where it say that MONEY IS HOLY ON TO GOD
If Moses or Arron disobeyed Gods commandments and instructions in any way they would have died. Thats why Arrons sons DIED. GOD KILLED THEM.
Moses did not make it to the promise land because he stroke the rock twice and he made God angry
King Saul lost his kingdom and was killed in war when he offered a burnt offering to God and he was not from the Levitical Priesthood.
PLEASE STAY WITH THE NEW COVENANT IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS
GRACE AND LAW ARE NOT THE SAME
WE CANT MIX THE MOSIAC LAW- AND THE NEW COVENANT
Saul befor he met Jesus killed christians because of the Law and when he was born again said “accoding to the law he was blameless”
Have a good day
Sorry,
the verse that I qouted was wrong,it was suppose to be (Detronomy 14:24-26) and (Deutronomy 14:25) about SELLING THE TITHES FOR MONEY
Hi,
I agree with you Deuteronomy 14:25 is very clear.Jesus said no one can change the law given to the Jews.Not even Jesus can change Deuteronomy 14:24-26
Peace to you all
in response to Jeff’s comment, i am a christian too and like you, i “offer” what i can to the church. most of the time, i don’t have anything to offer but i can assure you that this does not make me or should it make you a lesser christian.God works wonders in my life every sinle day even when i don’t tithe. i praise him everyday for all his blessings. i strongly believe that on judgement day God will not Judge us by the amount of money we gave to the church but by who we truely were in our hearts. there is no point in calling oneself a more deserving christian just because one tithe if ones heart is full of hatred, jealousy, greed, vengeance, vanity….
God says” Bring ye all the tithes unto the storehouse……… God has teachings in the Old Testament as well as the new testament. Giving what you can afford has nothing to do with your tithes, it is speaking on your offering. If you do not chose to be under the law in the OT, fine. God already knows your heart and wants you to be willing and obedient. However, everytthing that God tells us to do is a commandment. Giving is one of them. Would you rather hold on to your money and get before God only to find out that you were wrong? or would you love to hear “Well done, my good and faithful servant”?…..If you do not follow any OT laws, then do not expect any old testament blessings.
yes i agree that most of the blessings are written down in the first book of the scriptures. the word old testament is not found in the scriptures except the word old covenant.
they are not the same in qualities that people are sometime misapplied it to the bible.
a testament is a written record of event that outlined the making of the old covenant.
while the old covenent is like a contract tasked each party to execute of what has been stipulated for them to perform.
so if anyone will say all the commands are outdated they should study first of what are those stipulated in the old covenant.
Hi,
Wannie can I ask you a question? Are you a gentile? If you are,then go read (Numbers 18:1-3) NKJ or AMP
We can not change Mosiac law to fit the new covenant or change from eye for an eye to love thy neighbour by our own efforts.
God cancelled the old covenant for the new covenant with the blood of Jesus.
We can not try to use or keep the law to bring us closer to God.
Read (Galatians 5: 3-4NLT or NKJ)
Please read and study your bible before you argue about something you have no idea about.
Aussie…It amazes me how you can TRY and insult someone that you have never met or seen in your entire natural life. If your respone is any indication of how much you have studied or spent time in God’s presence, that that is awful. Different people have different opinions, and experiences. Tithing is mentioned in the NT. When you have a open heart to God and can recieve the things of God, no one has to trick you are mock you into serving Him completely with everything you own. It is just money, you cannot take it with you, and it does not make you happy. Truly believe that God is the owner of all things in this earth and you can give because of your faithfulness and obedience.
Do you get this defensive when they raise taxes or charge you for extra cheese…….or you don’t mind giving to them?
what haappened to unity as one body of belivers, with one mind, one vision, and one Christ.
wannie, your response shows that you DO read the Bible, unlike Aussie suggested. I agree with your view (and also God’s) that tithing is necessary, not only to recieve blessings, but to show God that we understand that the material we have is not ours, but His.
Tithing is necessary not only for the church but for mankind. The act of giving unites us and consequently makes this world a better place (I know that sounds clicheish but its true). Philosophers have what they call universal law. To determine if something is just or not, simply create a scenario where everyone in the world was able to do that thing. If that scenario is positive then the act is just. Imagine if everyone in the world tithed, not only to the church but to others; because if you believe that the kingdom of God is within, then we need to tithe to eachother as well. How would the world be if we all did that?
Damiso
That is so true Ms Wannie. We all have to develop a personal relationship with God in our own lives. If you do not give, don’t try and mimic others into not giving. You will be responsible for that when you get in front of the Lord. Giving your tithes and offering has to be a personal deision within yourself.
Hi,
Wannie, sorry if I came across too strong I apologise for that . I am not trying to insult anyone or offend anyone .
When you give large amount of money to help and serve people, you get a bit annoyed when you hear some pastors and teachers teaching lies to line their pockets and use the gospel for their own selfish agendas while taking money from financialy poor christians.
Wannie,Jesus didnt warn us about the deceitfulness of money for fun.Jesus warned his disciples and his followers for a reason.
We cant serve God and money.Here is a verse to meditate on it (1 Timothy 6:5-6 )NLT or AMP, THE VERSE CLEARLY SAYS “GODLINESS OR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS A SOURCE OF PROFIT or a MONEY MAKING BUSINESS a MEANS OF LIVELIHOOD FROM SUCH WITHDRAW ”
Please read that verse and spent time to study it,Paul who wrote about agape love wrote it.
Anyone who ignores it and suffer from deception is a result of ignorance and laziness.
The largest church in Sydney takes in 40-50 million a year and their policy is that they DO NOT GIVE ANY ASSISTANCE FINANCIALY OR HELP THEIR MEMBERS IF THEY SUFFER IN ANY WAY.
Even pastors who get in to financial hardship said that the church refuses to help but recomend that you approach the government for help.
This paticular church monitors your giving then they promote you to a group called “kingdom builders” if you give more than 10grand on top of your tithes.This church promotes the “prosperity gospel”,they teach that if their members pay their tithes God will make them rich.
The Australian Government withdraw grant of over $400,000 because the church delibrately defrauded the Federal Government by lying and falsifying documents for Aporiginal support programe while the church annual income was between 40-50million.
Peace to you all.
Humans will be humans… and non-believers will be non-believers until they WANT to see…
People will ALWAYS find a justification or rationalization for NOT giving the tithe to the church. Some because they have seen churches or pastors abuse the money they have given and others because they feel like it’s their money & they don’t want to share.
GOD talked about the tithe & even asked us to test him with it for a reason. Whether under the law or not has no bearings to what HE asked of us & what the church or the pastors do with God’s money once we have given it, this will be the accountability of the church & the pastors not ours. Our accountability will only be whether we gave or not and whether we gave with the righ attitude or with the right feeling in our heart.
The commandments were done under the law, so just because we are no longer “under the law” is it OK to kill?
We just had a service on tithing this past Sunday and like many of you I wasn’t a believer in it. We own a construction business and money has been tight, but went ahead and wrote a check for my tithe this week, praying that it would all work out. When online checking my account today I noticed that the debit for my grocery bill never came through. I don’t think that it was just a coincidence. I believe that it was God’s blessing and I will definitly keep tithing!
February 18th 2010
Jesus had teach us about the law, read Matthew 5:17-20
God bless you all
Mat 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
Mat 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Mat 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
Mat 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
When was the last time you heard a sermon on this passage, ye, “children of God” ?
By the way, I am gone fishing :))
Humans will be humans… and non-believers will be non-believers until they WANT to see…
People will ALWAYS find a justification or rationalization for NOT giving the tithe to the church. Some because they have seen churches or pastors abuse the money they have given and others because they feel like it’s their money & they don’t want to share.
GOD talked about the tithe & even asked us to test him with it for a reason. Whether under the law or not has no bearings to what HE asked of us & what the church or the pastors do with God’s money once we have given it, this will be the accountability of the church & the pastors not ours. Our accountability will only be whether we gave or not and whether we gave with the righ attitude or with the right feeling in our heart.
The commandments were done under the law, so just because we are no longer “under the law” is it OK to kill?
Great point, let God judge them for misusing the money, we still have to do our part and give. People do this when giving to the poor as well, we sometimes look at the individual who is asking for money and try to evaluate that person to see if they are going to use it for a meal like they said or use it for drugs. That is not our job, our job is to give and give freely. Even if that person is an addict, they may really be hungry that moment and will use that money for a meal and not for drugs. We do not have the power to tell, so we shouldnt try, just do what we can, and that is to give.
Damiso
Romelia,
Why should we be tried and judged by God for the external action of murder when it’s our heart that has broken the law of hate?
- jared
.-= steward´s last blog ..Incompatible Systems: Tithing v. Holy Spirit =-.
to Freewillgiver
the line said in Mal 3 “how will a man rob God?” dictates the obligation given to each one for God. the word man as it is writen was in a general form and not in a selective form to say that it was allegedly for israel. no! because the tithe was not a part of the old covenant to end after the old covenant collapsed in 2kings book.
jesus taught us to tithe in a new spiriual form equiped of its spiritual elements required to the commandment keeping.
Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
if the local churches practiced the old way of tithng system not governed by the holy spirit then the chances are their tithes were not probably acceptable to God.
Luke 18
10″Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
the true tithe givers are those believers who were guided by the holy spirit of God.
mathew 23:23
But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
since you asked me of importance i will ask you how many church did jesus build?
Hi,
Peace and Grace to you all,
Its always good to debate and discuss anything that we think its important in our christian walk.
I beleive our giving to support the work God is doing here on earth is important but we need to examine our hearts why we give or pay tithes,
I think many christians just give their money to any pastor or preacher without even knowing why because it feels good or they feel obliged to give.
I pray that Christ will reveal his Grace to all who want to serve him with their finances that they will hear the leading of the Holy Spirit so that God will direct your giving and not be deceived by the enemy that Jesus warned us about.
Please remember not all are sent by God, Jesus warned us about wolves in sheeps clothing.
These wolves will use scriptures to steal money from the body of Christ.
The Holy Spirit did not force you to become a christian, now why would he force you to give or pay your tithes to support His work.
Grace and Grace alone will set you free to serve God with all that you have without looking for a reward here on earth or a return of your giving here and now.
Grace will set you free from all legalism and compairing ourselves with each other.
Have a Peaceful Day
mr.Aussie, i read your posted comments throughly and it prompts me to ask what do you mean “grace” in connection to giving and to tithing?
this is my share of where does this alleged giving out of freewill have come from?
Why doesn’t Paul mention tithing in his letters? (from another source)
Realizing that all Scripture was inspired by God and profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and that the only Scripture available at the time were the books we know as the Old Testament,
Paul did not consider it necessary to repeat all of God’s laws in his letters.
His letters contain answers to specific issues and were not written as a new set of laws to replace God’s instruction found in the earlier books of the Bible.
Why didn’t Paul take tithes from the Corinthians? Is this the New Testament model for ministers?
Some in Corinth were among the apostle Paul’s most vicious detractors.
In 1 Corinthians 9:1-23 he defended his ministerial role and argued that he and Barnabas had the right to receive financial support from the Corinthians for their service to the Church. Even though they had this right,
Paul explained they didn’t exercise it because they were concerned that it might “hinder the gospel” (verse 12). He didn’t want to be accused of greed or wanting to be supported by the members there. To avoid such accusations, he took no financial support from them.
To support himself financially, Paul worked as a tentmaker (Acts 18:1-3).
In 2 Corinthians 11:7-8
Paul reflects on his decision: “… Was this my offence, that I made no charge for preaching the gospel of God, humbling myself in order to exalt you?
I robbed other churches—by accepting support from them to serve you” (Revised English Bible).
He then explains that brethren in Macedonia paid the expenses that he could not meet while in Corinth:
“If I ran short while I was with you, I did not become a charge on anyone; my needs were fully met by friends from Macedonia; I made it a rule, as I always shall, never to be a burden to you” (verse 9, REB).
Paul’s decision not to take financial support from the Corinthians was an unusual situation prompted by the accusatory attitudes of others.
Hi,
Willis, What I meant by Grace is the ability, know how, empowerment, wisdom,knowledge, understanding,resources,power that we operate from that God gave us through Christ Jesus.
Those who are self made or self sufficient will never understand and be offended by what I posted.
Jesus said, that apart from him we can not do anything.
Apostle Paul before he was saved, killed christians because of the Mosiac law but in Galatians he was totally against legalism and those who practise the Mosiac law.
I need to point this out to those who post comments on this site, I serve Jesus and if you think your opinion on these matters are true then please do not get upset if other christians do not agree with you.
I serve and follow Jesus and He is a servant. Servants do not argue with their masters or bosses.
I hope you understand what I mean by that.
Peace to you all
yes ofcourse! but does that mean it that they don’t have knowledge in the time of moses?
we can read the first book on how God had shown his wonder in font of the israelites by crossing he sea on bare feet and you said knowledge and empowerment came only in jesus time? i know some may have raised the question about the definition of grace but i can share my own analysis to avoid confusion on this matter.
it goes like this:
during the israelite times the gentiles were not permitted to take part in God’s salvation given to abraham. they don’t have hope of what it’s gonna be a masterplan for them. the covenant was designed and exclusively given to all of abraham’s descendants as thus what it became the chosen people of God.
when jesus came with the new covenant in place outlined the inclusion of the gentiles as part of the process. through his blood he combined the two opposing tribes into one. that’s why Paul said:
Gal 3
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
there would be no division among the two different trees!
Rev 7
9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.” 11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
the two has become one granted!
but you have to note here that the gentiles were not given grace to build their own empire or a church away from the jews.
let’s clarify this vital info from Paul’s analogy:
Romans 11
13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry
14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
now i want you to analyse this remaing paragraphs…
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you( the Gentiles), though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,
18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”
20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.
21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
the tree symbolized as that of abraham and the branches are his children.
the broken branches are those who were rejected because of non-faith to God’s message.
and the wild olive shoot are the gentiles being grafted in one of the broken branches in place as if the natural branches.
here is the analysis of the matter and i want you to open your mind to the truth.
if the branches which were the israelites people chosen to observe the sabbath of the lord will that mean also for the gentiles to acquire the same sabbath to them?
pls justify your answer after you read the Romans 11 throughly!
Dear Willis,
If you are a gentile then go read(Numbers 18:1-3)
We came into the kingdom through Jesus sacrifice,not before his ressurrection.If you want to keep the Mosiac law go ahead but please understand this.
Accepting Jesus as lord and saviour does not make us turn into Jews or John the baptist.
Sitting in the garage does not make us turn into a BMW or a Hyundai
Without Jesus we have nothing.Gentiles do not qualify to access any old covenant laws that was given to the children of Israel exclusively before Christ Jesus sacrifice.
That is why Israel is a nation today not a colony or a territory.
Israel is an independent Nation and no one can deny that fact.
God still calls Israel His people even up to this day
God of Israel adopted the gentiles through Jesus Christ, gentiles did not have a covenant before that we were the same with the Egyptians in the time of Moses
………………Gentiles do not qualify to access any old covenant laws that was given to the children of Israel exclusively before Christ Jesus sacrifice?
do you still believe that the gentiles were not to observe the sabbath law command?
well i guessed you should read more of Paul’s works specialy in Hebrew 4 of what were the guidelines required to salvation seriously for the gentile birth in general.
i will help you to understand of what he meant by.
some people worship on sundays and some rested on fridays, but each of them claimed to have worshipped the true God. so confused!
let’s understand the position of the true christian teachings about God.
as i have posted here of some previous comments that the seventh day (saturday)identifies the true creator.
“It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.”
when moses ratified the covenant made at mt sinai, the sabbath has been included for the israels to perform.
This covenant made at Sinai—called the “Old Covenant” today—imposed upon the people of Israel certain terms and conditions to be performed. The people were to keep the Ten Commandments. And the reward for obedience would be to make Israel a nation “above all people.”
but Paul clarifies some points to remember:
Once a covenant is signed, sealed or ratified—confirmed—it cannot be added to (Gal. 3:15). Anything appearing “beneath the signature,” so to speak, is not legally any part of the covenant. Notice the words “the covenant, which the Lord bath made with you” (Ex. 24:8). It was then already made—completed!
no fridays or sundays mentioned in this paragraph to identify the their true God.
so everything that connects their doctrines to the old testament were considered void and not valid or shall me say a kind of deception in nature. it’s gonna be a challenge to all to show a proof of trueness.
did paul preach of no sabbath?
let’s understand his message in heb 4:
1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.
what rest does paul speak?
4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.”
did he teach us to set aside his sabbath?
but the message they (the israelites) heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.[a] Now we (christians) who have believed enter that rest.
finally what was his last message to the people?
9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
why?
12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
did paul preach of no sabbath?
finally what was his last message to Us people?
9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.
11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
What rest that he mentioned remain for the people?
“anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his”
JUST AS GOD DID FROM HIS!
WHERE was the last time God’s rest?
FROM THE CREATION WEEK!
So what rest was all about?
It’s a God’s rest of the seventh day Sabbath!
Why do we have to keep it?
12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Paul must be talking about the judgment day scenario that would be impose to all of the people towards the commandment keeping.
the paragraphs had shown to be a CAUTION if you were a gentile converted christian!
Hi,
Willis, Please slow down if the scriptures say that God will kill you if you go near his holy temple that means he will kill you period. (Numbers 18:3)
If you are trying to keep the Mosiac law to draw near to God then go and read (Galatians 5:2-4)
If you still want to be circumsiced then dont forget to keep all the laws that was given to the Jews through Moses. I mean the cleaning ceremonies, sin offering,tithes, and all other compulsory offerings that the bible teaches that enslaved the Jews
When you find a High Priest or a levite here on earth then let us know because even Jesus was not allowed to be a priest according to (Hebrews 8:4)
Christians who insist to keep the Mosiac law and all the sin offerings are treating Jesus sacrifice as a common thing.
Not only its absurd, its proud and stupid to say the least.
Knowledge puffs up but love edifies
We can not mix the precious blood of our savior with the blood of animals offered by priest before the veil was torn when Jesus died.
We can not mix the old covenant with the new covenant and pick and choose which law to keep and which one to ignore
Please contact any Synagouge and ask if they are still paying tithes anywhere in the world
They will tell you that they no longer pay tithes because their are no more Levites here on earth and no high priest to receive the offferings according to the Mosiac law
If you are promoting the sabbath then go ahead but Paul taught that if you keep the law to draw near to God you are cut off from Christ. Read (Galatians chapter 4-5)NLT
Jesus said that He is our Peace,Rest,Saviour,Shepperd,King,Truth,Light,Provider the Great I AM.
The Mosiac law is not our saviour
If you still do not uderstand this, then we have to call our friends in Houston.
“Houston we have a problem”
Have a Restful day
what is this sidney? Romanizing the christian doctrine again by bringing the Galatian book in contra to hebrews book? i read and understand of what Paul has taught to his brethren. no slight difference from the hebrew 4 and never did encourage anyone to do away from the law of sabbath. your sundays are the product of constantine the great, the christ of the Profeesing Christian in America. believing in the Pagan Trinity was part of Constantine’s agenda. and you are a part of it!
how can you interprete something if you are inside this pagan beast and slaved of the Roman? jesus has suffered a lot in theirs hands and they want to destroy his teachings by setting up THE FAKE CHRISTIANITY out of the Holy Roman Empire. those who bear the symbol of trinity are slaved of the Holy Roman Empire.
since you raised the Galatians issue then i will interprete it in front of your eyes of what it says let’s trace the root of the prblem.
Mathew23
2″The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
….for they do not practice what they preach.
….They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders.
Galatians 5
2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
did moses impose a heavy burden to the people?
4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
who’s they?
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat!
what particular burden of yoke?
circumcision?
does it contadict to what was written in Romans 2:25?
Romans 2:25
Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.
that’s it!
….Circumcision has value if you observe the law!
and circumcision without the obedience to the law is a USELESS CIRCUMCISION!
and more….
Romans 2:29
a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.
you see no sign of doing away from the laws of moses infact it has been encourage duing his time.
Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer.
that’s what moses teaches about circumcision being explained by Paul and not to do away from it.
Acts21
21They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.
what was Paul respond to this bad info?
24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
no signs of circumcision law annulment in Paul’s word!
however he pointed out already about the Pharisees method of circumcision which ran in contra to moses teachings. this is where the pagan christian like you can’t understand of what was it all mean the circumcision.
why there’s a need to obey the law if you are a circumsice man?
because in Genesis 17:11
You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.
Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
because it is a sign of rigtheousness and not just a simple circumcision just like of what the muslims are doing.
the conclusion of this matter:
Paul was preaching the new way of circumcision a it was handed wn by moses and not to do away from it as what were the pharisees are doing.
….3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach!
no sign of abolition of the circumcision but it has been explained to e a responsible man when you are subjected to it.
CLEAR?
“Houston we have a problem” Read (Galatians 5:2-4)NLT,AMP,NKJ Slowly until you get it.
yes sydney YOUR word has been contained on these two paragraphs.
it was the Pharisees circumcision that Paul has been pointing out and not the moses circumciion!
read the words of jesus to understand Paul’s wordings:
Mathew23
2?The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.
But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4They tie up HEAVY LOADS and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
…and…
Gal 5
1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
what yoke of bondage that Paul and Jesus were talking about?
i sense that your though is more of inclination to the Roman teachings than to the christian teachings!
To Willis and those believing in Money tithes
Friend how is anti tithes a roman consept. Martin luther the great refomer was against tithes and so were most of the early protestants. Willis you seem to have a different take on Grace than most of the people at this site. Must Christians live by the law are Christian in sin if they do not give 10% of their money to the local church? I wish you would answer more directly. I do enjoy your participation directly becase you are fellowshiping with is in love I do believe.
Willis Thank you for your Questions Sorry for my slow responses. I will address those more directly later but I know Jesus is using you to spur us all to good works and Godliness. I will somewhat answer some of your challenges now.
Willis my friend what kind of fellowship do you attend in Jesus or denomination. Please inform us if you are Mormon , Adventist or Pentecostal then I could get a better grasp on where you are coming from. I was Pentecostal then Calvinist but now I attend a generic undenominational fellowship of 30 people who sit in a circle and there are many speakers. The main leader was last Pentecostal but there is no offering plate because he expects us all to give where our hearts lead. No person is called pastor. This is a kind of fellowship that begins to evolve without a tithe expectation. Leaders become less like authorities and more like friends what do you think.
Christians are new covenant grace people who are not under the law. Most of us Christians have little bloodline trace to the Ancient Jewish people. Thank you Al for pointing out the grace that we are under through Jesus. Friend Willis you seem to insert tithes which was a specific offering into the giving practices that the Disciples actually performed after Jesus Rose from the dead. Jesus spoke about tithes while the law was still in effect. Only after he rose from the dead is there Christian practice to learn from. Besides as I noted earlier All Jews in Israel owning land in Israel had to give the food tithes of certain crops and animals. There was no demanded percentage money tithe of silver or gold. Additionally there was no tithe of fish for fishermen or wood for carpenters in the Law of Moses. Before mosses there was no law so giving money was non compulsory and certainly not a specific percentage.
Willis you Challenge us on changing money tithing into Giving and you also stated something about the Jesus coming to help us live by the full law. I may be misinterpreting you but it seems that Old Testament giving practice is important in your beliefs. Galatians was probably the first book written by Paul and the biggest danger to the Church in Galatians was falling back into Old Testament traditions. Circumcision came before the law and is mentioned constantly in the bible before and after the law but Christians do not abide by Circumsion. Why would tithing be something that Christians must follow if the rest of the law is dead? Jesus did tell us to give, Jesus told the Pharisee it was good to tithe Willis we agree that it was great then. However Today without the temple because and the Body of Christ is the temple and Jesus is the High Priest we Christians are priest in Christ what kind of new tithe system is present. Jesus and Paul explained giving not a new form of tithing.
Do you agree Willis that money tithing systems differ greatly from the tithe systems of Moses. If you believe that they are the same please explain to us all how we Christians are to eat the tithes. Who can collect the tithes and who cannot and I am all ears. Can one send their kids to Christian schools and still be giving to Jesus in your tithe systems that we at this site do not understand. Please enlighten us. Until then we will have go by the New Testament because the system of the New Testament is very simple. Everyone set in their hearts what to give and where to give. Would we be sinning by saying that we are priest and can give to the poor or missions however we feel lead by Jesus?
Willis Why not use words concerning giving in the frequency the Bible uses
them. Jesus talked about giving to the poor from the beginning to the
end of his ministry. Alms is the word used most often in the new
testament concerning Christian giving unless my count is wrong. Alms,
Offering, and Sacrifice dwarf tithes in their frequency and covey the
message of giver freedom without the 10% baggage attached inherently
to tithes the word?
______________________________________________________
offerings)
occurs 265 times in 210 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 9 (Gen 8:20 – Lev 7:21)
(offering)
occurs 724 times in 504 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 21 (Gen 4:3 – Exd 30:9)
_________________________________________________________
sacrifices)
occurs 79 times in 76 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 4 (Gen 46:1 – 1Sa 15:22
sacrifice)
occurs 218 times in 205 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 9 (Gen 31:54 – Lev 1:14)
__________________________________________________________
(alms)
occurs 13 times in 13 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Mat 6:1 – Act 24:17)
Mentioned more in the New testament
_______________________________________________________
(tithe)
occurs 14 times in 13 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Lev 27:30 – Luk 11:42)
tithes)
occurs 24 times in 21 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Gen 14:20 – Hbr 7:9
(tithing)
occurs 2 times in 1 verse in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Deu 26:12 – Deu 26:12)
39 times 35 verses 7 in the new testament
……..Christians are new covenant grace people who are not under the law?
what do you mean by being not under the law?
there’re seem some misunderstood facts on Paul’s teachings of the kind of obedience required in the NT laws.
what was Paul really said in regards to obedience?
Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
didn’t he teach that there’s no need to abolish the law if under grace?
Romans 2:15
since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
was circumcision required under grace?
Romans 2:26
If those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?
again! did Paul speak of no longer under the laws anymore?
let’s tace the problem:
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
now read this!
Romans 3:31
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
WHAT!!?
was Paul drunked when he taught of not under the law and then he lastly not merely abolished but supporting the law ?
ARE WE UNDER THE LAW OR NOT?
Romans 7:1
Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?
Romans 7:7
What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”
Romans 7:14
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
Romans 7:16
And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
Romans 7:22
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
tell me where does your doctrine stands?
Romans 8:7
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
if you are not submitted to God’s law then you must be guided by a sinful mind and hence YOU BECAME AN ENEMY OF GOD!
it’s a very important thing to gathered all of his writings together and come up with better reasonings!!!
im going to ask you one for now.
you called yourself a christian and a christian mean a follower of christ not Paul.
during the early years of the apostles they preached the gospel basing their teachings in the first scriptures because the NT books were not yet available during those dispensation period and hence the books also must be supported by the works of the prophets. the tithing systems were not part of the old covenant as i cited couple of times in which you don’t need to make excuses of not to tithe in the new covenant. even the circumcision did not come from the mosaic laws but from abraham the patriarch of moses.
since the first scriptures were the only written documents available during Paul’s time, my question is: where did Paul base his doctrine of no more tithing in the church?
as i have said we are not a Paulinian to follow Paul of his doctrine but we tag ourselves as christian that followed christ of his teachings.
where in the book of the gospels had jesus taught his disciples that eventually became aposstles not to tithe anymore?
Willis you sound like you are a Sevenday Adventist, Please let us know if you are or not.
The way you defend the sabbath gives you away.
AUSSIE, didn’t jesus teach that the sabbath was made for man and not for adventists only in the bible?
during the apostles time, the only scriptures available during their times was the first scriptures.
may i ask, where did Paul base his doctrine of no tithings in the first scriptures?
we should note also that we are not a paulinian that followed Paul’s doctrine but christian who obey jesus’s teachings.
where from the gospelS jesus taught his disciples NOT TO TITHE?
Willis I get that you hold the Old testement in higher regard than much of the new testement am I correct? Anyways I have more questions friend.
Willis Paul wrote most of the New testement are you saying that the old testement is a better guide to Christian practice than the Writings of Paul. Paul Rebuked even Peter in Gallatians and Peter accepted it. Peter wrote of Paul that his writings are hard to understand but that Christians should heed Paul.
Do you have a problem with Paul. Also If Christians are to give 10% of their money to Jesus then who is worthy to be the collectors of this money. Can all Christians collect tithes as their rights as priest or are only some priest worthy to collect and distribute the New testement tithes?
Who also can eat the tithe like Duteroomy 14:26 can we also have wine and strong drink tithes to eat like the old testament?
Friend Willis you will find that applying the old testement laws to today is difficult and complecated. That is why Jesus gave us all two commandments which are really one love Jesus with all your heart mind and soul and in doing so we will love our neighbors including our enemies.
Christ in US
what a terrible claim by you that you have mistook Paul of his writings as the founder of christianity whereas jesus was the one who built the church. never in the history of the apostles tagged the first scriptures as old testaments, a misapplied term for the old covenant. i think this is where you have fallen apart from the rest of the truth. there are two kinds of christianity in this world if you don’t mind that the one you had been preaching came from the Pagan Roman church and not from the jewish-christian group.
jesus came to restore the law of moses can be found in some of the gospel’s writers from there you denied it as the truth.
John 7:19
Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?”
9And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions!
Acts 15
19″It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
WHAAAT?
that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
why would they need to preach the writings of moses instead of christ’s if the former ha been abrogated?
19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household,
20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
the church supported by the first scriptures!
therefore the gospel must come from the writings of the prophets and indeed that the gospel of the God’s kingdom can be found in Daniel’s book.
now let’s read another testimony of the jewish-christian doc.
27King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? ( or the writings of the prophets)
I know you do.”
28Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”
how can Paul demonstrate the gospel of God through the writings of the prophets if the first scriptures had been abrogated ever since?
you are really drawing the people away from God through your greed performing of something you do not know either.
certainly your dctrine is a silly front of the Roman teachings.
Willis take the lowest seat or you will be humbled
What are saying, are you greater than the apostles God chose to put their letters in the bible?
Jesus said to learn from Him for he is lowly and humble, not proud and arogant .
Now I got my answer.
Legalistic people are so proud they cant hide it.
Willis their is no book in the bilble called after your name.
Maybe God forgot about you ?
Stop being so proud it reveals how immature and stupid you are
Knowledge PUFFS UP
Go find that scripture first.
Aussie, the only thing to understand the writings of Paul was to become true to yourself rather than having the traditions passed down to your midst. try to picture yourself as of Paul and preach the gospel with the first scriptures as the only valid and accepted by the people. how wuold you make the people in giving method in place of tithings when it was not written in the scriptures? you don’t have logic to show your valid reasons of why do we have to do of something that wasn’t there? the books from Genesis to Malachi were not an old compiled testament book as you’ve assumed it from the start.
i understand of what’s Paul’s intent in his writings as a whole that the givings method in the church were only made under the difficult circumstances that rocked the foundation of the church between the sudden change of the climate and the great persecutions that hinder the spread of the gospel. if the teachings of Paul can not be linked up to jesus’s word then my assumption was true that christianity has been set up on top of the jewish doctrine. no doubt about it!
Romans 11
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,
18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”
20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.
21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
did you see of what it said? “arrogant people are those who don’t accept the jewish phylosophy in this regard”
Willis this is a difficult verse for most people who teach a New testement money tithe system. This verse works fine for those who believe that Christians can set in their hearts how to spend for ministry to Jesus. I still have not heard how Gentiles must pay to certain priest or levites in an era without a priesthood levites or a temple. Deuteronomy 14:26 is very hard to mix with most Evangelical church teachings about money tithes. There is too much freedom and joy in giving and eating and drinking in this scripture for most tithe teachers to stomach. What how do you explain that our eating the tithes works today?
Willis friend how do you mix this verse with a current money tithe system? How can we as Christians eat our tithes? Are there only some priest who can collect the tithes or can all Priest collect the tithes and what New testement scriptures will support such a system. Jesus turned water into wine which sybolised the kind of simple communion we find in the Old testement food tithes. Please explain a system of New testement tithes where where the giver sets in their heart what to give but is somehow involuntary and the giver gets to eat the tithes.
Deuteronomy 14:26 (King James Version)
26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
opponent of tithes tend to have so many excuses not to believe in God’s commandment for fear that they will soon to discover that this financing laws of God were to be kept for lifetime regarless of religion we are in as it has been written in Mal 3. jesus confirmed the validity of this law through out in Mathew 23:23 even after the old covenent was broken so many years ago!
for the last time that the word tithe does not limit itself to the material things in life but from the heart where your love resides. God is a jealous God and anything that blocked man’s relationship to him is idolatry in nature. just think for a moment if you give something of any amount out of your freewill will that satisfies him with no guiltty of conscience? but how sure you are if you are not under obligation to give just as how jesus had compared it to caesar’s tax? probably it’s alright if it’s $10, $25 or $50 as long your heart dictates! human heart can be sometime deceptive and tends to go wrong like the marriages that resulted to divorces because of their incompatibility in heart. we must ask ourselves if giving is enough to lessen your guilt.
first of all God owns all of your income and any of your possesion or your children. this is where we satisfies God of our earnings leaving nothing for us to feed our children. right or wrong?
let’s read in Acts;
32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.
33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.
34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
leaving nothing for themselves as soon they recieved the holy spirit!
that’s what i called God’s standard way of collection by denying yourselves of everything just like the widow’s alm.
can any of you perform that task?
i guessed not! now ask yourself in your heart if greed deprived you the right to give all of your income to God without reasonings?
ofcourse you might reason out the necessity of your family must be considred just to cover up your greed.
but God knows that you need it for yourself and family! that’s why he introduce the FIRST TENTH to embody the entire wages as one for God. 10% determines the amount you earned from all days work and it represent your effort to be given to God. you don’t need to offer your whole salary but a first tenth counts it all!
Willis what are the eat the tithe pricipals. Willis you described the Old testement as containing eternal pricipals? Deuteronomy 14:26 (King James Version)
Were tithes 30% or 10% for everyone? If one tithed on the 10th cattle and one only owned 9 cattle then the tithe on cattle would be 0%. Who is now exempt from tithes and Who can accept the tithes or can all priest accept tithes? Why do most tithe teacher seem to avoid these kind of specific questions concerning tithe scriptures?
26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
are we playing ignorance here if the cattle subjected to tithe?
the tithes, the first ofspring, the first harvest and your first born in the family are good examples of sacrifices to God. what was the real spirit among those i have mentioned? is God running after your money for bringing up these laws?
the real spirit that sprouted from one’s heart is love! and that love must be sacrificed to him that it would be an idolatry if we withhold this love of the heart.
so what law is required for the cattle?
Hi, Galatians 3:1-3AMP Please Willis could you explain what that scripture means because I am a little confused here.
Does works of the law mean keeping the law ?
And what does Galatians 4:21-31 mean ?
mr. jones, what are those written in Gal 3 & 4?
..Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
..21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?
22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
i understand what you mean that according to some, we are not under the law but under grace. this doctrinal pesentation does not comply to some of Paul’s writng found in Romans.
let’s read in more detail.
Rom3
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
too confuse isn’t it? one article that taught of not under the law and the other article taught that it is supporting the law?
and these culprits (RPC) finally assumed that we are no longer under the law?
in Acts 21 also states that Paul did no do away with laws of moses.
24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
if i put myself in the shoes of Paul, the laws were actually CAN NOT SAVE the sinners and only the blood of crist can save us from the curse of the law.
but why would Paul clarify that the law is supported by faith which is one of the element of the holy spirt?
you know why?
because:
Rom3
20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
the law serves as a mirror to know if you have sinned or not.
jas1
22Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror
24and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
25But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.
it is like if you are gazing yourself at the mirror and found dirt on your face, will you wipe out that dirt from your face through that mirror?
certainly not! this is not the way the laws worked on people. it serves only to know if you are a sinner or not.
and without the law how will you know of what sin is?
1 jn 3
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
during Paul’s time the jews have been living through observing the laws without even reforming the inside of oneself. they treated the laws as a mere constitution for the government to be abided of.
the laws must be resided in one’s mind and heart and not just of outward looks for the people to see.
heb8
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
if you have listened to those wolves that preached of no longe under the aws, they were deceived of from their selfish greed.
surely they will pay for their sin!
Dear Willis,you sound like a person who needs some help.
The problem with people who try to search the scriptures for their selfish reasons and then interpret it and say they have found a new revelation is that they compare themselves with the apostles, prophets,teachers, pastors, evangelists in the bible.
They even exalt themselves above Gods servants that he chose to record their work and writings in the bible
Its sad to see this, but proud people are very hard to deliver because pride is their prison and they believe that God send them to give us what they receive from him exclusively.
TITHING has long been here since the creation of all things. it is a Royal tribute to God who became the first king of israel. when jesus taught his disciples about giving to caesar must also be treated the same to God. if caesar received his tenth then why can’t we to God? both of these two are leaders of their kingdoms. taxes respect the government of caesar and so is tithes to God’s. if they failed to give of their obligation, they will be charged of stealing.
is this the way we pay him by any amount to his government? how do you expect to enter into his kingdom if you had been taught of no more tithes in your church? just think for a moment if those people in moses time were resurrected and started to exercise their right to pay God’s tithe and you who was taught of not to, how can you build a kingdom with two different foundations ever be existed? didn’t jesus say “a kingdom divded of itself will not stand”!
so where did Paul learn the giving way in place of tithes adopted for his church?
how can you link up this teaching to christ’s word?
if we can not find this vital link then your church is A group of ROBBERS!
Willis Freind please speak plainly how should christians tithe today in your opinion are there only certain fellowships in Jesus with certain leaders who can collect the money tithes? I think in explaining things will be very complecated compared to simply giving to the poor and needy by the spirit of Jesus.
Moses designated people to eat the tithe and people to collect the tithes. The poor and those with less land ate the tithes. Willis who and how should Christians eat their tithes today. May only some priest collect money and give it to God and what constiutes giving money Jesus today ? May we all as priest simply give to the poor and missions at our own discression under the spirit of Jesus or do you believe that leaders must touch the giving to Jesus first before it becomes holy. Who is exempt from the tithes today becase in the law of moses some people were exempt?
The Eat the tithe pricipals need much explaining also.
Deu 12:17 KJV – Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
Deu 14:23 KJV – And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
why do we have to mention the levites whenever the tithe was mentioned? tell me who really owned the tithe? was it God or the levites? and what was the instruction handed down by Paul as who will collect the tithe after the collapse of the levitical priesthood inside the church? (heb 7)
calm down for a moment and concentrate to what he wrote in his book.
who collect the first tithe?
1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High.
He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him
2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything.
was the tithe a part of the old testament?
the problem here there’s no such thing as the old testament. the Roman catholic church invented this kind of description to segregate the jewish books to the works of the apostles.
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
look at the word REBUKING TO RIGHTEOUSNESS!
when was the tithe has ever been practiced prior to the old covenant?
although it has been here since the creation, the only evidence can be found was recorded in Gen 14.
Genesis 14:20
And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
no sign of levites collecting tithes or temple to where the tithes shall be eaten by the people. all of your myths were unfounded!
who will collect the tithes after the levitical priesthood collapse?
6This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.
9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham,
10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
did you grasp the meaning of the way the levites collection of tithes from Paul’s word?
9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham!!!
they’re paying their tithes through abraham’s example!!!!
who will assume the tithe collections after the levites?
11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
the laws of tithing goes back to the original form where melchizedek PERFORMED the Lord’s tithe collected from abraham and that melchizedek is jesus christ himself!
and jesus designate his apostles to handle the church’s welfare headed by Peter!
now, do i have to answer who will take care of the Lord’s tithe in the church?
Willis, I sincerely hope you are not a pastor,because of the foolishness that is coming from your comments.You will lead so many people into deception. You asked why I mentioned Levites when I talk about tithing,Arron and the Levites are the only ones commanded by God to minister to him in the holy sanctuary.
You were not instructed by God to be involved.Willis for crying out loud your name is not mentioned in (Numbers 18:13) Why do you try to eliminate the levites? Do you want Willis instead ? What a joke
The prisoner who was on Jesus right side when he was on the cross,did he even keep or know anything about the Mosiac law ? I can guarante that his name is in the book of life.
Stop this nonsense you are trying to deceive christians into believing that you know what you are talking about. God himself commanded Arron about the Levites involvement with the holy sanctuary in Numbers 18:1-3.You want to remove the Levites ? Thats enough proof that you are DECEIVED and you have no idea what you are talking about. You just gave yourself away.You need deliverance from all that pride trip.
Numbers 18:1-3 is the the scripture that proves God commanded Arron to get the Levites involved with the holy sanctuary.
NOT WILLIS,I REPEAT NOT WILLIS
this is a tip to understanding the scriptures: DON’T ROMANIZE EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE!! ALRIGHT?
Robbers or thieves should be punished, Is that what you are saying? then we should kill people who steal from us and should be allowed to have more than one wife like Apraham.We should follow Abraham in all that he did.
Did Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law or not ?The curse of the law is death,because no one can keep the law that is why Jesus had to come and save us. The redeemer,saviour,the lamb of God without sin.
I know for a fact that only the high priest and the levites handled the offerings and tithes according to scriptures,Willis that mean if you were there and disobeyed God direct instructions God would have killed you on the spot because you are not a levite. True or false ? In the old testament if one person breaks the tithing or the sabbath law the whole nation of Israel was cursed.Does that still apply to us today ?
That means if I do not tithe my whole church will be cursed ?
Your beliefs and comments does not line up with the scriptures.
We have to throw away the New taestament and all the teaching of the Apostles to accept your views on the Mosiac law. To break one law like tithing or circumsicion we are guilty of breaking the lot. Thats what the scriptures teach very clearly
what do you mean he redeemed us from the curse of the law?
does that mean if you rape somebody and kill you’re still saved from the curse of the law?
what kind of mentality was that?
let’s read carefuly of what the scriptures teach.
16″For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
did christ die for the sins of the world and through his sacrifices everybody will be saved?
listen to what the scriptures said!
…..that whoever believes in him shall not perish.
only those who believed and not those people who don’t!
what would be the fate of those who failed to tithe?
are you lucky enough that you have been saved by your wrong grace of your church and there’s no need to tithe, yes ofcourse but not unless you read of what the scriptures had said:
Mal 4
1 “Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.
now compare to the Revelation of jesus christ!
12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
what do you mean by this: If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
if you don’t practice of what the scriptures teach then possibly you will be in the lake of fire.
do these two hell fire in Mal 4 and Rev 20 have in common?
so what kind of curses that jesus abolished?
you should read your bible more seriously!!!
Whats your interpretation of Numbers18:1-3 ? ABSOLUTELY NO ROMANS INVOLVED IN, NO WILLIS TOO,NO GENTILES UNLESS THE BIBLE IS MISSING SOME BOOKS LIKE “THE BOOK OF WILLIS HOW TO BE DECEIVED AND PROUD OF IT”
yes! you’re Romanizing it considering tithes to be as old as the old covenant when infact it is not a part of it. Moses was just assuming and regulating on how to perform such that commandment related to sacrifices.
tithe is not a human ordinances but a living laws that transgressed the law of stealing when failed to perform.
Moses spoke to God face to face,go back and read your bible properly. Moses did not assume anything.God told Moses to make sure he follows all his instructions carefully. Now surely you are not saying that Moses assumed the ten commandments,tithing .circumcision,and all the Mosiac law?
Willis I am shocked that you think Moses GAVE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL??????
ASSUMPTIONS.
Look you are clearly confused,and maybe you think this is a site for sevenday adventist church elite.
I suggest you go and try your lies on another site.
Try Mormons,Jehovas witness and Muslims they love assumtions
the word assumption was fitted to use according to the sequence of event in Genesis book.
it only mean that the tithes had begun when Abraham paid his tenth to Melchizedek, the same law was handed down until moses came up at the scene from whom he was finally chosen by God to assume this law as binding forever. now you’ve admitted that this law did not originate from moses.
assumpton can only mean of something which has been existed.
and the tthes had been here for a long time before moses was born.
thanks for you admission of guilt!
let see what more truth can you admit from your denial scheme.
Christians who insist to keep old testament laws are still trying to prove that they can obey all the commandments Moses gave the children of Israel.
Sabbath,circumsicion,tithing and all the other laws when they keep them it makes them feel superior
These individuals find it boring not to have any religious ceremony to keep.
They are more religious then the muslims,hindus, and buddists.
but the problem we had been explaining here that tithings were not part of the old covenant. abraham tithes his increase before he received the covenant of God through circumcision. and even after the covenant has been annulled with the collapse of the Davidic kingdom the tithing system has not cease to exist in the time of Jesus.
the collapse of the Davidic kingdom is a sign that the old covenant had ceased to function from that point. it’s unthinkable to read on how jesus taught his disciples to tithe in a spiritual way (mat 23:23)
let’s not go far beyond to this point and start to debate on this issue.
i am ready to discuss every detail with regards to this part but we must require a sort of professionalism when dealing with this issue.
(Numbers 18:1-3) verse 1 says “THEN THE LORD said TO AARON”that is not handing it down,that is God speaking to Aaron. Willis why do you delibrately misquote scriptures?
THEN THE LORD said TO Aaron,that is very clear. GOD SAID IT
can you complete your though on this chapter?
i don’t get it what you mean?
If the Church was given the intuition to be led by the Holy Spirit, then why would we subject ourselves to such an impersonal manner of giving? Is not our God alive, or is he made of stone just like the pagan god’s?
Must we continue to follow the traditions of the fathers of Israel as if “Emmanuel” never came?
If we incorporate the rules and regulations found in the Old Testament to teach us stewardship, then why not incorporate similar standards that control how, when, where, and who can serve God? Did the wisdom found in the levitical laws disappear? Did the wisdom in clean animals, and circumcision all of a sudden disappear? No, the wisdom did not disappear, but what can replace the wisdom of a living God directing our lives?
- jared
.-= steward´s last blog ..Jacob’s Tithing Vow =-.
but the tithing is not a tradition but a living law that transgressed the law of stealing if you failed to practice!!
Let everyone set in their hearts what they should give, dose that not imply free giving?
Who can collect the tithe? Additionally how do we followed the principle of eating our tithes? Is eating tithes wrong in your opinion? Can Christians still followed for the following celebration tithes verse?
Due 12:17 KJV – Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
Deu 14:23 KJV – And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.26And Willis you are quite prolific friend Willis you are a man who studies the word, however can you explain to whom he who tithe to? If we are incorrect by giving directly to the poor or to missionaries, please tell us who you give your money tithes as an example for us. Is it wrong to see ones kids to a Christian school and calling giving money to Jesus. What if our Christian leaders do not ask for 10% what if our leaders think that we are priest? Willis do you think that you yourself is a priest?
Christ in Us.
what kind of giving does Paul teach to his believers?
there’s no problem of having it as part of the doctrinal parctice in the church
but the problem arouse when this giving substitute the laws of tithe as part of the financing laws of the church thus bringing an uttered destruction to the masterplan of God. giving when we fully researched and understood the book of Paul was just to hasten the storing of relief goods for the people of jerusalem devasted by the sudden change of climate where no plants had ever grown to feed the church.
Paul was task to do the collection for the miserable fate of the people in jerusalem.
27During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch.
28One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)
29The disciples, each according to his ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. 30This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul
we can now conclude that the giving in Paul’s time was for the special circumstances!
why would someone mention the levites when the tithes became the subject of discussion?
1. the tithing laws has no connection to the old covenant of moses for abraham has not yet received the covenant of God when he paid his tenth to Melchizedek.
if you are free we can debate this matter in this specific subject.
2. jesus christ assumed the office of Melchizedek as high priest of God who has the power to collect the tithes from the church.
3. some said the temple where the tithes will be stored has been destroyed according to Russel’s book of rubbish.
didn’t he research the bible first before he wrote down that article to his book?
Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Ephesians 2:21
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
what temple did Paul mention in Ephesian?
the church ofcourse!
Wouldn’t giving 100% also be a living law that transgressed the law?
.-= steward´s last blog ..Jacob’s Tithing Vow =-.
the Numbers 18 outlined the rules on how to handle the tithing laws in regards to making as one nation after their captivity. under the rule of tne nation the levites were to preside as priests in their respective tribes of israel. the tithing law was handed down from the time of abraham when the old covenant has not yet been formalized through the circumcision method as a sign of receiving and accepting the cov. of God. it is hereby to declare that the tithing law has no connection to the old covenant of moses so as to discontinue when the new covenant has started to take effect.
why would someone mention the levites when the tithes became the subject of discussion?
1. the tithing laws has no connection to the old covenant of moses for abraham has not yet received the covenant of God when he paid his tenth to Melchizedek.
if you are free we can debate this matter in this specific subject.
2. jesus christ assumed the office of Melchizedek as high priest of God who has the power to collect the tithes from the church.
3. some said the temple where the tithes will be stored has been destroyed according to Russel’s book of rubbish.
didn’t he research the bible first before he wrote down that article to his book?
Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Ephesians 2:21
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
what temple did Paul mention in Ephesian?
the church ofcourse!
giving 100%?
that’s wonderful in God’s system of worship!
just like in Acts:
32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.
33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.
34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales
35and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
but if you deceptively giving it all by denying your family’s necessity then you are a HYPOCRITE!
1 Timothy 5:8
If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
MONEY should not be the case in giving the tithes!
as i have explained to my previous post that the tithes have something to do with your heart of where does it incline to.
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
tithings are sacrificial laws that will prevent us from sinning of idolatry!
what kind of giving does Paul teach to his believers?
there’s no problem of having it as part of the doctrinal parctice in the church
but the problem arouse when this giving substitute the laws of tithe as part of the financing laws of the church thus bringing an uttered destruction to the masterplan of God. giving when we fully researched and understood the book of Paul was just to hasten the storing of relief goods for the people of jerusalem devasted by the sudden change of climate where no plants had ever grown to feed the church.
Paul was task to do the collection for the miserable fate of the people in jerusalem.
27During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch.
28One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)
29The disciples, each according to his ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. 30This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul
we can now conclude that the giving in Paul’s time was for the special circumstances!
first of all clarify the meaning of old testament in the scriptures of whether you’re misapplying it to the old covenant of moses. there’s no such thing as old testament but we can find old covenant in the bible.
why do we have to incorporate the duties of the levites in tithes collection? in numbers 18 they were given an authority to represent God in collecting his tithe to the people. you haven’t asked this thing in who’s example do these people tithe their increase in moses time?
let’s read for the second time around.
9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham,
10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
did you grasp Paul’s word: “that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham” means they paid their tithes through abraham’s examples!!!
the levites were not there when abraham paid his tenth to Melchizedek!!
why were you still bringing up levites to collect the tithes when jesus himself had assumed the office of Melchizedek, the same priest who collect the tithes from abraham.
just follow the examples of abraham in a spiritual way!!
Hi, Then why are the levitical priesthood mentioned in Hebrews 8:4.Like someone point out before if Jesus was here on earth he can not be a priest because of Hebrews 8:3-4.
Read Hebrews 7:22-all the way to chapter 8:4 so that you can understand what other people tried to point out to you before.Jesus is the high priest in Heaven but here on earth the Levtical priesthood still remains.Thats what Paul meant in Hebrews 8:4
i read the whole chapters and even the whole book of hebrews and there’s no evidence that the tithes had been abolished.
it says that jesus will never be a priest for he did not come from the tribe of levi candidate to be a priest that’s why:
12For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar.
what law that said to be changed? was it a tithe?
16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.
17For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[a]
the law of ordaining a priest that has something to do with the ancestry!
18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath,
21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’ “[b]
22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
did you grasp that?
a man can be a priest without an oath while the other with an oath.
23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office;
24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.
so the whole theme of Paul’s work contained only to the two types of ancestry in appointing a priest. one in the line of the levites and the other in the line of melchizedek.
what are the duties of melchizedek?
is tithing a part of his duty? read heb 7 for your ignorance!