Here is a list of all the bible verses from the Old and New Testament that are about tithing.
- Genesis 14:20 – Melchizedek comes out to meet Abraham, as Abraham gives him a tithe of the spoils of his victory.
- Genesis 28:20-22 – After the vision of God’s renewed covenant, Jacob initiates a covenant with God vowing to give him a tithe of what he receives from the promised land.
- Leviticus 27:30-32 – The specifications of the tithe is introduced into the law of Moses.
- Numbers 18:21 – The tithe is dedicated the Levites for the work in the tabernacle.
- Deuteronomy 12:5-11 – God gives instructions for what to do with the tithe once Israel crosses the Jordan.
- Deuteronomy 14:22-29 – God gives instructions on how to disperse and exchange the tithe.
- Deuteronomy 26:12-15 – God gives instructions on how Israel should sanctify the tithe before they can ask for a blessing.
- 2 Chronicles 31:5-12 – The children of Israel do what’s right under the reign of Hezekiah, and bring the tithes to the designated places.
- Nehemiah 10:37-38 – Israel obeys God and brings the tithes to the storehouse.
- Nehemiah 12:44 – Officers were appointed to watch over the tithes in the storehouse.
- Nehemiah 13:5-12 – Nehemiah cleanses the storehouse and kicks Tobiah out of the room that was designated to store the tithe. He then restores order.
- Amos 4:4 – God commands Israel to bring back the tithe and reiterates the curse that is upon them if they don’t.
- Malachi 3:8-10 – God reprimands Israel for not delivering the tithe, and reiterates the blessings and curse that would be in result of whatever decision they chose.
- Matthew 23:23 – Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for not obeying the weightier matters of the law along with tithing.
- Luke 11:42 – A parallel passage of Matthew 23:23 as Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for not obeying the weightier matters of the law along with tithing.
- Luke 18:12 – A Pharisee brags about his obedience to the law and tithing.
- Hebrews 7:5-9 – Abraham’s tithe is used to illustrate a change concerning the priesthood.
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Hi, Willis what do mean when you link the Romans with Numbers 18:1-3
Please give us your interpretation of Numbers 18:1-3 NKJ
sorry for this misplaced comments!
the Numbers 18 outlined the rules on how to handle the tithing laws in regards to making as one nation after their captivity. under the rule of tne nation the levites were to preside as priests in their respective tribes of israel.
the tithing law was handed down from the time of abraham when the old covenant has not yet been formalized through the circumcision method as a sign of receiving and accepting the cov. of God.
it is hereby to declare that the tithing law has no connection to the old covenant of moses so as to discontinue when the new covenant has started to take effect.
why would someone mention the levites when the tithes became the subject of discussion?
1. the tithing laws has no connection to the old covenant of moses for abraham has not yet received the covenant of God when he paid his tenth to Melchizedek.
if you are free we can debate this matter in this specific subject.
2. jesus christ assumed the office of Melchizedek as high priest of God who has the power to collect the tithes from the church.
3. some said the temple where the tithes will be stored has been destroyed according to Russel’s book of rubbish.
didn’t he research the bible first before he wrote down that article to his book?
Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Ephesians 2:21
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
what temple did Paul mention in Ephesian?
the church ofcourse!
Hebrews 8:3-5NKJ teaches that if Jesus was here He would not be a priest,since there are priest who offer the gifts according to the law.
If Jesus cant be a priest if he was here on earth,that means he can not collect the tithe or any offerings according toHebrews 8:4 because only priest are allowed.
We are followers of Jesus,if he is not permitted to collect tithes because he is not a levite or a priest,what gives us followers the right to collect tithes.
you always make me laugh of the way you brought out your opinion.
who collect the first tithe from abraham?
and how did melchizedek received it?
did jesus appoint peter to assume the welfare of the church?
John 21:17
The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.
Hi,Sam quoted Hebrews 8:4 .It says That if jesus was here he would not be a priest because he is from the tribe of Judah not Levi.
Willis give us your interpretation of Hebrews 8:4 with Numbers 18:1-3 in mind please.
Hi
Please all you bible scholars can you give us the meaning of (Galatians 5:3-4NLT)
I think it means exactly what it says.
I have been reading all this arguments about the law, God commanded the jews to keep but he did not command any gentiles to observe any law before Jesus.
Galatians 5:3 (New International Version)
3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
the paragraph wants to emphasize that circumcision in the flesh was just an outward manifestation of the faith from the heart. however there are some propagators who were called the circumcision group by Paul that if one who wants to become a jew, he must subject himself to circumcision first making the law a burden to carry if one wants to be saved. our Pagan Christians branded this law as mosaic laws, a yoke of bondage during those times. they could not sustain logically of why would the God of love place this terrible laws to the people of israel right after they had been freed from captivity.
they want to picture God as the monster of the old covenant and come to be tamed only when the new covenant was taken into effect. where is their logic over this thinking?
first of all it was God who gave the laws to the people and they are not a burden to them for all we know.
Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands.
it was called the covenant of love and not a covenant of burden of what those profeesing christian are tryin to say. they don’t care of what the bible has to say but to follow their own human made doctrines of the Mystery of the Roman religion.
now understand of what jesus said about this circumcision group and their activities.
John 7:22
Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a child on the Sabbath.
did you grasp? that circumcision did not come originally from moses but from abraham
and moses was just assuming his responsibilities as part of the masterplan.
what was Paul said in regards to circumcision?
Romans 2:25
Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been
why was there a need to obey the law?
Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
because the circumcision means a seal of righteousness!
and the word righteous means:
13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
so circumcision and righteousness go hand in hand as the requirements to salvation because circumcision according to moses is a circumcision f the heart and not just a physical manifestation of the covenant.
let’s read:
Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer.
this is the real moses laws to be observed!
Hi
I asked about (Galatians 5:3-4NLT)NKJ,AMP not NIV Is it me or maybe I missed in verse 3 says “the whole law of Moses” Please correct me,did God put that there or not ?
Willis,did Paul wrote that or God put it there ?
God commanded Abraham to circumsice himself, it wasnt a suggestion,God commanded Moses to instruct the children of Israel to have all the males circumsiced not a suggestion.
When you can talk to God face to face like Moses then you can speak against God servant like you treat Apostle Paul and all his servants.
In the book of Mathew 23:23 Jesus said tithing was included in the law of Moses when he said “you pay tithe of mint and ainse and cumin,and have neglected weightier matters of the law” Jesus INCLUDED tithing in the Mosiac law. No pastor or teacher,evangelist can deny that Jesus said that tithing is in the law of Moses according to scripture.
Please do not add or remove anything Jesus said or you will bring judgement on yourselves
are you sure?
let’s investigate!
mat 23:23
23″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
where is moses mentioned in this paragraph?
and where did Abraham base his calculation of tenth he paid to Melchizedek? did it come to moses?
im sure you gonna read your bible more carefully.
Jesus included tithing when he said “you have neglected the more important matters of the law” All the jews at the time of Jesus lived under the law including Saul before he was born again.The law God commanded Moses to give the children of Israel exclusively.
Willis tell me something,Did you have a covenant with God before Jesus died on the cross?
Are you a gentile ?
Did you say that the book by Russell Kelly about tithing was all rubbish ?
Why are you wasting your time on this site with people who do not beleive in tithing when you can go counsel the President of the United States like Billy Graham ?
mr. sam, jesus was considered a renaissance teacher during his time. a bold man who don’t fear of threat against him for he was mistaken him of doing away the laws of moses. thus he was accussed of breaking moses laws not knowing that he was just restoring it in the standard form. i guessed you should analyze more of his teachings rather than spilling your nonesense thinking here.
Willis, you sound like you think Moses came up with his own laws, God commanded Moses to make sure he follows his instructions very carefully when he spoke to Moses face to face.Read Genesis,Deutronomy,Exodus,Numbers and all the old testament.
Tithing,sabbath,circumcision,and all the laws Moses gave the Jews were directly from God himself . Please dont tell me you do not agree with that.
If you do not think they were not serious about keeping the law go to Israel today on a sabbath day and speak out loud against the sabbath and see what happens to you.
from which part that i’ve posted seemed that moses created his own laws?
tell me honestly bro that you’re not aiming of something that i’ve been accussing you of?
Willis your answer, when asked to explain (Numbers 18:1-3NKJ) yesterday.You asked why the Levites are mentioned when tithing is debated.Read (Hebrews 8:4NKJ)
Even Jesus can not violate Gods command in (Numbers 18:1-3)according to (Hebrews 8:4)Levites,Aaron and his sons only were commanded to minister in the sanctuary by God himself.
Moses got the same instructions for the sanctuary by God to give to the Isralites.
Do you want to remove the Levites or add another tribe ?
This is enough lies from you Goodbye
you are at it again! Paul had explicitly written in Heb 7 that the priesthood has been changed from the levitical to Melchizedek priesthood. and jesus had assumed the office of Melchizedek to whom we will pay our tithes.
infact the tithing law has been practiced ORIGINALY by Melchizedek in the time of Abraham. no levites priest is required that then to collect the tithes for your information READ the Genesis and the Hebrews book throughly!
Shaloam,
Jesus if he was here on earth can not be a priest according to Hebrews 8:4 because of the law. That is not a misprint or an error the law mentioned in verse 4 refers to the law given to the Isralites in the old covenant.
I agree with Sam and his interpretation of scripture here.
Its very hard to free legalistic people who will defend the law rather than accepting the finished works of Christ. By Grace we are saved not by works, its so simple
the shifting of power in the priesthood has been explained in Hebrew 7 by Paul and we don’t have to debate about the levitical priesthood in this form.
according to him, under the NT rules the priest must be perfect without blemish and can not die and jesus was qualified to the office of melchizdek.
Paul did not teach that the priesthood has been vanished in the NT laws. it just the opposite to what the opponent of tithes wanted to convey that the priesthood according to him has been brought back to its ORIGINAL FORM which is in the line of Melchizdek ancestry and no longer to be presided by the levites. because jesus is now a spiritual being and God requires a priest to be of perfect and unblemish from any wrong doings. it can not now be another human in its place because this is what the new cov standard requires.
Willis please define giving to Jesus?
Who can collect the money tithes only certain priest or every priest? How can money be given to ministries of the called out ones , who decides amounts to the many ministries? Jesus said give to the poor he also said let the little children come to me. Can giving to ones children or family be considered giving to Jesus who decides or can all prest set in their hearts what they should give to each ministry? Ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood.
Christ in US!
actually giving can be another spiritual element of the holy spirit! just like love that resides to one’s heart once he was baptized. these elements empowers a man to obey the law heartily. im going to give you some hints to read on and investigate.
Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
…..justice, mercy and faithfulness are exampls of spiritual elements of he holy spirit required for God’s commandment.
why?
Romans 8:4
in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
not just to obey the law but one must be equiped with holy spirit to guide. what kind of obedience when one does not have the holy spirit?
10″Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get
what do you call to this kind of obedience?
that’s HYPOCRISY!
the message does not say to remove the laws but to be equiped with the holy spirit of God that empowers the heart to obey.
mat 5
17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
….UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH DISAPPEAR! it has a connection to the last age of human on this earth and not of what those Pagan christian believed to be a redeeming act at the cross.
that’s a miserable doctrine that i have encountered from them.
Willis, you said because Abraham did not need any levites when he gave spoil of war to Melziedeck that means God made a mistake when he appointed Aron,his children and the tribe of Levi according to (Numbers 18:1-3)and did Moses acted in rebelion against God when he insrtucted the Israelites on how to tithe and give offerings? God does not make mistakes or have a split personality.
Was God serious in (Numbers 18:3)when he said he will kill anyone who does not obey what he commanded Aaron to do?
Aarons sons were killed when they disobeyed God instructions he gave Aaron in (Numbers 18:1-3)
Please stop this nonsense and read what the bible says about people who God killed because of disobedience.
……….or you are the one who committed such that mistake!
firstly, Levi came from the loin of Abraham.
Heb 7
10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
logically noone except Melchizedek can be able to collect the tithes from him.
secondly, the levites role in the ancient times were to represent the first born of each tribe of israel because no people can access to the altar ecept to those who were designated by God. he purified these people to do the priest activities.
but God requires an eternal binding without blemish to occupy the office of the Priest and no human can be fitted to that slot.
18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless
19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath,
21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’ “[b] 22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office;
24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.
25Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
28For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
A PERFECT PRIEST IN THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST WHO ETERNALLY LIVED WITH GOD.
WHY DO YOU STILL NEED THE LEVITES THAT SINNED WHEN JESUS CAN ASSUME THE OFFICE OF THE PRIEST ETERNALLY!?
Certainly you are mistaken to what God requires for his masterplan!
Death on the basis of breaking his commandment is valid to God even Paul testifies on that.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
living in sin TORTURED one’s mind and is not a healthy living!
Willis, be honest who is fit to collect the tithes now ? You are talking about yourself now arent you
Or is it the Sevenday Adventist church. Lets hear the truth why you have been arguing about the tithe. You WANT TO COLLECT IT FOR GOD DONT YOU ? AND PAY YOUR BILLS WITH IT OR MAYBE TAKE YOUR FAMILY ON A VACATION. WHAT A JOKE!!!
GO GET A JOB, Read (1 Timothy 6:5AMP)
i’m not sure if you’re against the law or you’re just protecting your pocket!
are you asking me on behalf of your church’s dogma or yourself?
Paul preached the gospel using only the first scriptures to the people because the NT books were not yet available during his time.
how did he manage to teach of no tithings to the people when it is neither written in that scriptures?
let’s debate this thing first.
where in the teachings of jesus that the church will never govern by tithes?
2 Timothy 2:23
Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments because you know they produce quarrels.
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
i’m not sure if you’re against the law or you’re just protecting your pocket!
are you asking me on behalf of your church’s dogma or yourself?
Paul preached the gospel using only the first scriptures to the people because the NT books were not yet available during his time.
how did he manage to teach of no tithings to the people when it is neither written in that scriptures?
let’s debate this thing first.
where in the teachings of jesus that the church will never be governed by tithes?
Willis I was talking about here on earth not Heaven. Who receives the tithes here now ?
Jesus is sitting down on the right hand of God he is interceeding on our behalf.Jesus is sitting down not receiving any offerings or tithes like the high priest used to do with the old covenant here on earth
He offered himself as a sacrifice once and for all and God was pleased with His sin offering. Jesus does not have to die again or make another offering to God that is why He is sitting down.
The old covenant the high priest had to make sin offering and all other offerings that God commanded Aaron and the Levitical priesthood to perform regularly or else they will be cursed and somtimes die.
for God sake! read the book of Hebrew 7 that Paul had indicated the unnecessary to have a human in the place of the priesthood under the new covenant laws. the tithings will no longer govern by the levitical priest but of a spirtual priest of God who were in the person of Melchizeek.
now take this to note that the priesthood has not yet been abolished so as to excuse yourself of NOT TO TITHE! take this message to all of your friend who were in doubt of their move.
Willis, Paul wrote a letter not a chapter, the chapters and verses were added when they put the bible together for easy refrence. It was Pauls letter to the Hebrews, Chapter 1-13.Paul wrote chapter 8:4 of Hebrews too.
The Holy Spirit through Apostle Paul wrote this letter and God put in the bible for us.The spirit of revelation, Knowledge, wisdom and the spirit of might manifested powerfuly in Pauls ministry. He is the only Apostle that God gave the revelation of Agape love recorded in the New testament.
what do you mean they added the verses in it? are you presuming that the scriptures are corrupted?
looks like you have nothing to argue about it but to fabricate lies to depend your cause.
who will receive the tithes if jesus was in heaven?
in the old covenant, although it was impossible to give the tithes to God while he is in heaven. to sort out the problem he designate aaron to preside as high priest in place of God. but in the new testament jesus appointed Peter to manage the welfare of the church.
John 21:17
The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.
Willis, we are all waiting for your answer. WHO COLLECTS THE TITHES HERE ON EARTH NOW?
You wanted to debate this now give us your answer.We all need this great revelation from brother Willis.
now eat this pargraph and digest it to your stomach so you will be fed up of God’s word.
John 21:17
The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.
why did jesus as a head of the church had given Peter in control of church’s welfare?
certainly you have no brain over this!
This is intresting, Willis, Apostle Peter is in heaven who collects the tithes now here on earth? Is it apostle Willis ? or is it pastor Willis ? Give us your answer because you are a tither.
the tranferring of power has been in exercise ever since! that’s the standard form in every institution. are you ok?
I know all the scriptures that you are using to con christians with, Now tell us who collects the tithe here on earth today? Apostle Paul,Peter are in heaven.
How can tithers obey your teaching when you lie about the person who collects the tithe today. WHO IS THE PERSON WHO COLLECTS THE TITHE TODAY?
Thankyou for participation Praise Jesus to everyone including James Sam and Jackie. Thank you Willis and tithe supporters for your Challenges in love. Willis I think What friend James meant was that the added verses meant that chapter numbers and verse numbers were not a part of the Bible. So what they were trying to say was do not break between chapters but read whole storys instead of digesting the word as verses and chapters. Getting the big Idea of a book like Galations that the Law is fulfilled in Christ. Anyways friend.
I continue to read all of your post and re read them. I know you cannot answer every question that everyone poses you we will patiently wait for more specific answers. I believe you love us all. Willis I believe you also love this electronic fellowship and that you read others post as well as write. Am I correct friend who I am getting to know? I continue to read all of your post and re-read them. Notice how this electronic fellowship helps to inform many about much of the Bible and how you have aided others in knowing more about the Bible all outside of a traditional fellowship. Is not Jesus in these debates?
I will now write everyone another novel concerning your writings and challenges in love. Willis you are a student who has helped us all discuss the Bible and study to show ourselves approved. I sure wish you would teach and be more direct. Many have asked you questions over and over which you begin to answer and then you leave it vague. Is this purposeful or are you short on time? I will be patient and I hope you have gotten to know us. Are you a professional Christian paid by a fellowship? My family’s income derives from Christian schools and I was once a paid youth minister in a tithe church. See that is what I mean by revealing yourself Paul and the Apostles discussed their professions.
Willis and everyone, Paul did not advocate for Christian leaders to have regular salaries derived from 10% of those younger in the faiths money. Paul practiced the opposite he went to prisons and sent money back not becoming a burden. Should not spiritual Parents give more to spiritual children? If you know more than us on tithes then you are our spiritual superior so please explain more directly so we all can benefit otherwise most will think you are hiding or unknowledgeable. I suspect you know more than you let on and you might differ from your fellowship on many matters. You have too much debate to be merely a company man party line guy so come out with it and reveal the nuts and bolts of the tithe doctrines you practice and how your fellowship could do things better. Maybe you believe they are correct so lead us to your revealed unhidden beliefs about tithes. Are you being evasive friend?
2Cr 12:14 NIV – Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.
2Cr 12:15 NIV – So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well. If I love you more, will you love me less? (I now discuss these verses)
Please be a spiritual Parent Friend! Why be a person of mysteries while explaining difficult eating the tithe questions and very direct calling things you disagree with of Roman Catholic origen. Isint it true that possibly 90% of anti tithes people on this site are Protestants who agree with Martin Luther when it came to Church tithing. Ellen G White praised Martin Luther in the Great Cotraversy and adventist recognised earlier Protestant contributions. If you are Adventist might means be signifigant but your felloship body is now unknown. Sorry if guessing offends you. Willis Martin Luther Criticized the Catholic Church and did not call Christian giving tithes. He was against tithes when asked if ministers should be paid tithes. Martin Luther also struggled with names for ministers as leaders he called them preachers instead of pastors if I am correct. I guess you might be an Adventist minister of some kind or connected to some Millerite branch of Protestants but that is only a guess because you have left this a mystery? I hope you will more specifically have answer for everyone on this sight that you will reveal. We want to thoroughly scrutinize all doctrines including their origens like the Beureans Paul praised. We were not raised as you were such so help to convert us where this can be done if you love us and it is important. We welcome the input but issue avoidance seems unlike the Diciples of Christ.
Where can we tithe? We are all priest in Jesus if we believe and we are part of the Body of Christ who is the High Priest thus we are all ministers. What do you think are we all priest in Jesus so can we all give and receive tithes. Now my answer is that we are all Priest and priest ate the tithes like the Levites and the poor. And I believe that Priests were also exempt from paying food tithes but they got to eat them. Do you find a parallel between communion and tithes? Jesus made wine from water and drank wine often should we follow the same communion. Communion was bread and wine to be eaten while tithes of Moses were food and wine always eaten. What do you say about drinking tithes including wine and strong drink today?
Friend Willis You have left it a mystery what you specifically believe about the principals of eating the tithes and I do not know why because you seem quite prolific about many matters. You also have avoided where we can tithe so I guess we must all assume that there is no place or people in your opinion worthy of mentioning on the whole issue of tithes. Our opinions is there is no money tithes or people worthy to collect tithes except for all priest making tithing systems and unnecessary. Those who disagree with grace free will give please explain what we should do to change our ways if it is necessary otherwise we must not be doing wrong? Why debate so strongly without explaining a solution? What can constitute a tithe for today? How can we eat the tithe? Who cannot be paid money tithes and who must pay them and Where?
Thanks all priest in Jesus for participating the debate is making me more humble revealing things I did not know because Jesus and his words are so deep. Willis and everyone answer as you have time but with clarity we all can avoid being long winded. Mysteries take many words to unravel so please be as clear as possible.
Eat the tithes Christ offered his flesh as meat
2Cr 12:14 KJV – Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.
2Cr 12:15 KJV – And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.
Thanks Freewillgiver, I think Willis thought when Paul wrote the letters he put douwn chapters and verses.From your comments you wanted people to read Hebrews chapter 7.
Since you insist read (Hebrews 7:26-28) and continue reading Pauls letter remove the number 9 pretend that there are no numbers and continiue reading the letter until you finish chapter 8.
I dont know how you write your letters but no one I know adds chapter numbers and verses to there letters.
Willis who collects the tithe now ?Let me guess sevenday adventist? Its you isnt it. Tell us its you if you are honest.
THAT IS SO FUNNY AND PATHETIC. I have alot of money if you tell me its you, then you will be a rich man. Read (1 Timothy 6:5AMP)
Thou shall not covet thy neighbours $$$ or his house,car, plane, etc
Just because a person believes in Jesus and follows him that qualifys you to collect the tithes.What about other beleivers do they have the right to collect tithes from you too ?
You are a tithe collector going around ripping off christians and telling then God sent you ?
Thanx James and everyone. I guess some could say that a big Idea of every new testement book is that Jesus fulfills the old rules and regulations. A list of words to a song is less neccisary when one has concert tickets to see the band live. Would you agree Jesus made things more simple and much less complicated than the law of Moses and every regulation from God before him. Simply love but he lived the very definition of love every day untill he was crucified. Praise Jesus for Willis hopfully he will reveal more of his heart.
Leaders should not expect to have spiritual children save up for them. That is entitlment we already get that from almost every earthly government. The Opposite is true of in the kingdom where the last shall be first.
Love entitles us to suffer for patience
……. I guess some could say that a big Idea of every new testement book is that Jesus fulfills the old rules and regulations.
WHAT?
why don’t you read it and reconciled to Acts 21 that even Paul as a christian fulfilled the traditions of the jews too?
what a silly fabricaion that i have encountered this day?!!
……..I guess some could say that a big Idea of every new testement book is that Jesus fulfills the old rules and regulations
WHAT?
why don’t you read it and reconciled to Acts 21 that Paul as christian fulfilled the traditions of the jews too?
what a silly fabrication that i have encountered this day?!!
now you begin not to believe of Paul’s work by resorting to fabricating things against it.
how do you interprete Heb 4 that Paul was encouraging the people to observe the sabbth too. do you wish to twist of what he wrote about it. certainly you are a Roman Pagan christian living inside that beast of the mistery religion of the revelation.
how can you win over me, sensing that you’re more protective against the political issue than the pure word of God. mine is spiritua word and has no connection to the curent situation. Paul is a victim of misrepresentation! he was accuss by the jews of doing away from the laws of moses the same rhetoric of accussation lodged by your group.
Acts
21They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.
22What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come,
23so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow.
24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
what kind of doctrine does Paul have?
……but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law
did Paul teach of notithings?
….As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
see! no teachings to do away frm tithes to the gentiles.
where is your sense of uderstanding? ha, Roman Pagan Christians are always making so many excuses!
james even if we removed the numbers the theme of Paul’s journey fell to the same of no evidence that he do away the laws of moses. and he added also to reinforce the truth of what my effort had discovered that he denied every accussation lodged against him. now let’s remove the numbers if this will work in your behlf.
edited for the sake of james and co.
When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.
What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come,
so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow.
Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved.
Then everybody will know THERE IS NO TRUTH in these reports about you,
but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
as a leader of the church why would someone like Paul say something about moses inside his doctrine?
….but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.!
what about those gentiles who were converted to christianity were taught by Paul?
As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
why he did not teach them that the tithing laws were abrogated after he responded of no way to annul moses’s law?
let’s compare:
….but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.!
…..As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
if he in obedience to moses law then he must be governed by the tithing laws!
and the gentiles were not taught too of bringing them not to tithe in this form.
WHY JAMES DO YOU HAVE TO ABIDE WITH YOUR NONESENSE DOCTRINE?
WHAT was written down in 1 Tim 6:5?
5and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
what do you think of a kind of ROB that Paul had mentioned in his letter?
you should remeber that he used only a one material and that is of what they called the old testament books in his preaching the gospel.
what kind of ROBBING GOD according to his doctrine?
“Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
“But you ask, ‘How do we rob you?’
“In tithes and offerings.
i think i have put you to the edge!
who’s next?
Willis, you are looking for a way not answer the question.
Read Hebrews chapter 7 and 8.For those who are a bit slow remove the numbers just read it like a letter,thats what I meant.
NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION!
WHO COLLECTS THE TITHES NOW?
áre you begging for an answer when it is already mentioned in all of the comments i have posted? it’s just a waste of time tackling this elementary things.
what particular in Heb 7 and 8 were all about?
just hit the nail to its head!
there are so many paragraphs and it would be anonesense if i will put all of it here. as far as the Acts 21 is concern no evidence can be found that Paul teach of no tithing laws to the gentile convert.
i think im beginning to have you check mate on this matter!
I think 1 TIM 6:5AMP says not to use the gospel for profit or a money making business,a livelyhood. Willis where about in that scripture you dont understand?
Its about people using the gospel for profit “CON ARTIST”
All your comments means one thing HOW TO RIP OFF CHRISTIANS.
VERY SAD FOR YOU.
removing numbers and chapters are no use by your own selfish technocrat!
the theme of his journey brings us all in Acts 21 where he spilled out of his INNOCENCE on the basis of doing away the moses law. so many churches of today have begun to re-examine this context and found to be reconcilable to the rest of his writings.
DID PAUL HAVE ABROGATED THE TITHING LAWS?
NO EVIDENCE THAT HE REPLACED THIS LAW BY GIVING OF WHAT THEY CAN.
PAUL IS CERTAINLY A VICTIM OF MISREPRESENTATION BY YOUR GROUP OF ROBBERS!
The book of Hebrews is a letter written by Apostle Paul.How do you write your letters? Do you use numbers to mark chapters and verses like,
Willis LIES Chapter 2 verse 1
Chapter 1:1 How to Con and manipulate money from christians?
WHO COLLECTS THE TITHE AND WHERE DO WE PAY?
I DON’T understand of what you mean by it?
just write down of what do the verses have to imply.
who collect the tithes?
if you are paying your electricity bill, are you having it paid to the church?
what a silly question was that?
tithing is a Royal Tribute to God that represent the kingdom of God!
if he was the head of the kingdom then the father must be the king!
and if he were a king then his tithing must be his royal tribute!
no line in the old that says the tithing belongs to the jews. ever!
Hi, Willis why are you avoiding answering WHO COLLECTS THE TITHES HERE ON EARTH?
You have given us a very intresting idea on how to CON CHRISTIANS OF THEIR MONEY, NOW GIVE US YOUR ANSWER OR ARE YOU SHY NOW???
joel go! and find out of what i have posted from the beginning!
now GO!
removing number 9? oh that’s new alright
what if we removed it do you think it will fit to your manmade doctrines?
or just pretend that Paul did not teach of not to tithe in the church according to Acts 21?
how about that?
Its funny Willis,why are you not telling us who collects the tithe now?
You have been arguing all this time about tithing now when people ask you where to pay it you suddenly refuse to give your answer.
Look God forgives CON ARTIST TOO.
GIVE US YOUR ANSWER
the answer has already been delivered with a seal on it in this forum. the problem you guys ARE LAZY to check and review all the posted coments that i have put in.
LAZY!! THAT’S WHAT YOU ARE! LAZY!
to the opponent of tithes who wished to rob God of his tribute.
Why doesn’t Paul mention tithing in his letters? (from another source)
Realizing that all Scripture was inspired by God and profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and that the only Scripture available at the time were the books we know as the Old Testament,
Paul did not consider it necessary to repeat all of God’s laws in his letters.
His letters contain answers to specific issues and were not written as a new set of laws to replace God’s instruction found in the earlier books of the Bible.
Why didn’t Paul take tithes from the Corinthians? Is this the New Testament model for ministers?
Some in Corinth were among the apostle Paul’s most vicious detractors.
In 1 Corinthians 9:1-23 he defended his ministerial role and argued that he and Barnabas had the right to receive financial support from the Corinthians for their service to the Church. Even though they had this right,
Paul explained they didn’t exercise it because they were concerned that it might “hinder the gospel” (verse 12). He didn’t want to be accused of greed or wanting to be supported by the members there. To avoid such accusations, he took no financial support from them.
To support himself financially, Paul worked as a tentmaker (Acts 18:1-3).
In 2 Corinthians 11:7-8
Paul reflects on his decision: “… Was this my offence, that I made no charge for preaching the gospel of God, humbling myself in order to exalt you?
I robbed other churches—by accepting support from them to serve you” (Revised English Bible).
He then explains that brethren in Macedonia paid the expenses that he could not meet while in Corinth:
“If I ran short while I was with you, I did not become a charge on anyone; my needs were fully met by friends from Macedonia; I made it a rule, as I always shall, never to be a burden to you” (verse 9, REB).
Paul’s decision not to take financial support from the Corinthians was an unusual situation prompted by the accusatory attitudes of others.
Willis, WHO COLLECTS OR IS ENTITLE TO GET THE TITHE HERE ON EARTH NOW?
STOP THE MANIPULATION AND ANSWER THE QUESTION
jackie after so many times i’ve posted my own analysis and you’re still bringing up this elementary question to me. this discussion is close!
John 21:17
The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.
let’s move on if you don’t have a heart to believe in it!
Its not elementry,Willis, WHO COLLECTS THE TITHE NOW HERE ON EARTH?
We are exposing a CON ARTIST here.
This is how a thieves avoid a direct question
Hi, what is going on here? I have been reading all your comments and now suddenly looks like someone is caught. Why is Willis not answering? everyone is waiting for his answer on who collects the tithe today?
BUT remember thieves can also be connected in ROBBING GOD of his tithe.
check it out in mal 3!
Thank you To everyone and Willis. My Bible student Friend Willis said “ I cannot help you but to go to the needy like in the charity fund where millions of people are waiting to have your help reach them rather than fattening your pastor’s stomach.” I agree with this and I think all Christians should put direct giving first over giving to Preachers. Have I misunderstood you friend Willis? In Proverbs it says those who give to the poor lend money to God. In Malachi it states bring the tithes to the storehouse so there might be food in my house. I agree yes that the food tithes of Moses were always eaten by someone along with most of the sacrifices
Willis you now seem to be stating more of your heart. Do we agree that giving money to charity is giving to Jesus? Would giving to the poor constitute a tithe in your book or must the tithes of today only go into the hands of a priest who is a leader?
Thank you Willis for some of the more defined responses and please friend we need repetition to understand your points of view. They are new news to us we want to hear any good news lovingly spoken. Do we agree that most preachers do not deserve money they demand? Do we agree that most preachers do not deserve money they demand? Praise Jesus? I love you Willis Friend I still have many questions left unanswered so I will continue reading all of your post as time permits.
Fellow Anti tithers, Willis our friend has given us many strong rebukes. The words Lazy, silly, liar and fabrication have been used to encurage faith in Jesus, but remember everyone, Jesus sometimes used strong language. I will assume my friend Willis wrote in love. Friend Willis I take your challenges from Jesus because he allowed you to say everything you have said. Do you consider most of people on this blog Lost unbelievers? If that is so then please witness to us in love. Do you consider us friends in Jesus Who need to be converted from some bad doctrines then please let us know? Maybe you consider us fellow Christians who need more understanding? We need your best from Jesus to us and I think you are holding back the love in your heart. Along with tithe discussions in this electronic fellowship Please answer and give us pieces of your testimony how Jesus has taught you to love others inside and outside your fellowship. Thank you for loving the poor. W e is all ears for your loving heart. And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and have not charity (Love), it profiteth me nothing “Love is patient and love is kind”
Thank you Willis for showing us love, patience and kindness while teaching us about the love of Jesus. I hope We Anti tithe friends will reciprocate being loving with you.
I agree with Charity giving this is freewill giving in my book. I think all Christians should put direct giving first over giving to Preachers. Have I misunderstood you friend Willis? Can charity giving be tithing today? Do we agree that giving money to charity is giving to Jesus? Would giving to the poor constitute a tithe in your book or must the tithes of today only go into the hands of a priest who is a leader?
I need explaining how Jesus fulfills the law is not one Big Idea part of every new testament book.
I believe strongly that Giving to the poor is giving to God!
When you said rob God of the tithes,YOU MEAN ROB YOU WILLIS?
ITS OK, IF YOU NEED MONEY TO PAY YOUR BILLS DO NOT USE THE SCRIPTURES TO CON PEOPLE TO GIVE YOU MONEY
Simply ask christian to lend you money not try and rip them off
i wonder if you had been REALLY concerned to the truth of the bible OR YOUR POCKET OF MONEY!
WHAT’s the sense of discussing the scriptures here if your mind were fixed on literal things?
then go! and choose to pay your bill first before they started to cut off your power!
God does not force anybody to heed of his message. but remember this thing when the time of judgment has come you will not reason out to him that his money went to the electric company itself.
44.Matthew 25:24
“Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.
Matthew 25:23-25 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter)
45.Matthew 25:25
So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’
there i found yourself here in this context!
HAVE SOME FUN!!
Dear Willis,some christians if we pay tithes that means we give less money to serve God.Do not judge how much Gods people give to him whether 10%,5% or even 20%. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.Try ask God for the spirit of humility.Your 10% for ten years is equal to 0000.1% to other christians per day.
Willis,you look very shifty now. WHO COLLECTS THE TITHE ON EARTH NOW?
You have been quick to teach and answer all the questions if you do not answer it means you are a cheat and a liar trying to con christians to part with their money.
cheating and robbing God are of the same style. don’t you forget that!
Willis all your comments means absolutely rubbish now. Just answer the question
DO YOU RECEIVE THE TITHES OR WE PAY IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Everyone is waiting for your answer Willis
Which church should christians pay their tithes to?
jackie after so many times i have been here and you’re still asking that silly old question of where will you put your tithes. in that case i can not help you but to go to the need like in the charity fund where millions of people are waiting to have your help reach them than fattening your pastors stomach.
if you are doubted of my words.
Here are some Seventh day adventist doctrines on money tithe misuses from an adventist research site. Who agreees or disagrees with these writings? What do yall think are these good universal standards for all Christians money given to Jesus?
D. Incorrect Use of Tithe
During her ministry Ellen G. White had to answer many questions dealing with the use of tithe and also had to confront specific practices in the churches and among workers. Her advice identifies specific uses of tithe that are not congruent with the nature of tithe and the sacred purpose assigned to it by God.
1. Personal Misuse: Writing to church members she says, “The portion that God has reserved for Himself is not to be diverted to any other purpose than that which He has specified. Let none feel at liberty to retain their tithe, to use according to their own judgment. They are not to use it for themselves in an emergency, nor apply it as they see fit, even in what they may regard as the Lord’s work.”[146] Notice that her advice is based on the nature of tithe.
2. Pastoral Misuse: In the local churches pastors had immediate access to the tithe brought to the Lord by church members and could easily put it to wrong use. The pastor should not feel “that he can retain and apply it according to his own judgment, because he is a minister. It is not his. He is not at liberty to devote to himself whatever he thinks is his due.”[147]
3. Canvassers and Colporteurs: Some church administrators were sympathetic with the idea of paying canvassers and colporteurs from the tithe. She wrote, “A great mistake is made when tithe is drawn from the object from which it is to be used-the support of the ministers.”[148]
4. Churches’ Misuse: According to Ellen G. White, tithe was not to be used to provide conveniences for churches,[149] to support church needs or care for the house of God,[150] to supply the common necessities of the house of God,”[151] to pay church debt,[152] or to “defray church expenses.”[153] Neither was it to be employed in the construction of institutional buildings.[154]
5. School Expenses: Ellen G. White unambiguously states that tithe is not to be “applied to school purposes,”[155] not even as a student aid fund.[156]
6. Assisting the Poor and the Sick: The Christian responsibility of caring and providing for the poor is constantly upheld by E. G. White. However, she indicates that tithe should not be used for this purpose, that it should “not be regarded as a poor fund. It is to be especially dedicated to the support of those who are bearing God’s message to the world; and it should not be diverted from this purpose.”[157] She counsels every church to “feel its responsibility to have a special interest in the feeble and the aged. . . The tithe should not be appropriated for this work.”[158]
7. Pastors in Politics: Political zeal expressed through political speeches is, according to E. G. White, incompatible with the work of a minister and “tithe should not be used to pay anyone for speechifying on political questions.”[159]
Not for Schools Politics the Poor or Sick according to Adventist researchhttp:
//www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Tithe-Theology-EGW.htm
this arugument is not taking anyone anywhere… everyone has his/her own contious(dont mind my spelling) and Jesus left us with the Holly spirit and if you are saved, you have the Holly spirit in you… so i say, let everyone allow the holly spirit to lead you wether to tithe or not… i believe your contious will tell you what to do… as for me, i stick with
Malachi 3:7-9
Return to me, and I will return to you,” says the LORD Almighty. “But you ask, ‘How are we to return?’ “Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, ‘How do we rob you?’ “In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse– the whole nation of you– because you are robbing me.
Malachi 3:10
Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
where the storehouse is my Local Church…
May God guide everyone to do the right thing, be obidient(because obedience is better than sacrifice) and letthe holly spirit lead you…
I am just butting in here for a second. I woke up this morning and found 30 new messages for this post. I don’t have time to moderate and read all this stuff, or for that matter, any of it. So i’m just hoping that everything is staying pretty clean on here.
also, because this comment page is becoming so long, i have broken it up into 2 pages. Click on the “Older Comments” link to view what you’ve said before.
What was Paul referring to when he wrote Hebrews 8:4? Which Priesthood was he refering to?
What law was Paul talking about here? You have made up your mind to keep the tithing law, then go ahead but keep the whole law and not just pick and choose which one to keep and which one to ignore. (Galatians 3:10AMP,NKJ,NLT)
This is Pauls observation Willis (Galatians 3:1-3AMP,NLT) for those that are a bit slow,thick and stupid to fall into this trap by satan
All you law keepers, Congratulations! How do you explain Galatians 3:10 or is that for non tithers?. Its amazing how christians read scripture and ignore what the bible clearly teaches.
This is Pauls teaching we are reading here not some try to be a spiritual giant wana be.
Some christians really think they know more than Apostle Paul and maybe God should have choosen them instead to put their letters in the bible.
Willis, just read the bible and dont try too hard to impress people with what you think you know,try humility its very peaceful to live in the Grace of Christ
Friends Mark Joel Willis and Everyone did you check out Seveth day Adventist Doctrines on money tithes. These doctrine statments are interesting and thought provoking. I have also read that Today SDA fellowships allow some money tithes to be spent at Adventist schools but this is limited. My research has been rewarding.
5. School Expenses: Ellen G. White unambiguously states that tithe is not to be “applied to school purposes,”[155] not even as a student aid fund.[156]
6. Assisting the Poor and the Sick: The Christian responsibility of caring and providing for the poor is constantly upheld by E. G. White. However, she indicates that tithe should not be used for this purpose, that it should “not be regarded as a poor fund. It is to be especially dedicated to the support of those who are bearing God’s message to the world; and it should not be diverted from this purpose.”[157] She counsels every church to “feel its responsibility to have a special interest in the feeble and the aged. . . The tithe should not be appropriated for this work.”[158]
From an official SDA website
Joel, Gal. 3:10 is making reference to the works of the law. No man can fullfill the works within himself. However through Christ man can now fullfill the law by faith. You have to read it all in context. The end of the thought comes in Gal. 3:14. The blessings of Abraham coming upon the Gentile. The law is now a heart matter no longer a head matter. I have read all of these posts. I realize that Willis was not direct enough for everyone but his point was those that feed the sheep can request the tithe. In our Western world that is the church or those that lead the church. I would ask that you attach yourself to a church that is caring for the widows, orphans, and needy. Then you know that your church is worthy of tithing into. But tithing is the truest form of walking by faith. It takes faith to give a tenth or more in our current society and trusting that God will return it multiplied. I am not trying to convince anyone here that they should be tithing because I believe that only God can change the heart of a man by his Spirit. Nothing Willis has said here will change anyone elses stance as nothing any of the others has said will change his stance. You either believe in tithing or you don’t. My only prayer is that something you are doing is helping further the gospel of Jesus Christ. Prospering and bringing the KINGDOM of HEAVEN to Earth will come with obedience to the Word of God. But bringing the KINGDOM of HEAVEN to Earth is the begining of Christ’s ministry and is our mandate.
Hi KD, Can I ask you a question ? What was Paul refering to when he mentioned cicumsicion in Galatians 5:3, its was about work of the law.Sabbath keeping,tihthes from food inside Israel,new moon ceremonies,cleansing ceremonies, passover, sin offerings,year of jubilee were given to JEWS ONLY.
Please stop deceiving yourself by thinking that the old covenant was for Egyptians,Philistines,Africans,Americans or whatever nationality you belong to.
The nation of Israel is Holy on to God period. Stop this pride trip that you think gentiles were included in the old covenant.
Now only those who have accepted Christ Jesus as saviour are in the new covenant because of his blood.
KD I respect you
“tithing is the truest form of walking by faith”
Everyone should read this statment and the rest below in context by KD. becase she is not dodging. she is truly seeking the truth and telling it how she feels. She can be corrected becase she is not vauge. Thank you KD for directness and not beating around the bush. You presented one of the most compleet and comprehensive pro tithe statments
Friends and KD I have 3 questions that Willis did not answer directly. 1.Who is worthy to collect the money tithes all priest or only some priest in Jesus. 2 Who is worthy to recieve the money tithes all priest or only some priest in Jesus. 3 Are all Christians priest in Jesus.
I disagree but I respect your reading Willis and being brave enough and loving enough to challenge us. Friend you misunderstand grace conserning giving but you do not hide like so many.KD you have read other post and you have been direct I think this came from your heart and it lines up with what tithe preachers really think but are too PC to say. If you look at your own statment you will find that your doctrine on tithes cannot fit with grace.
————————————————————————————————
I have read all of these posts. I realize that Willis was not direct enough for everyone but his point was those that feed the sheep can request the tithe. In our Western world that is the church or those that lead the church. I would ask that you attach yourself to a church that is caring for the widows, orphans, and needy. Then you know that your church is worthy of tithing into. But tithing is the truest form of walking by faith. It takes faith to give a tenth or more in our current society and trusting that God will return it multiplied. —————————————————————————— KD is a far better writer than myself becase she tells her feelings in so few words.
Hi,
Peace and Grace to you all,
I just want to encourage you all to rest in the Lord and in the power of His might. Please read Galatians 1:1-29 prayfully and ask God to set you free from all the condemnation that satan is throwing at you from knowing the law. Abraham did not know the law given to Moses, He simply belived God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:8 Amplified teaches that the Gentiles also will be saved through faith not by keeping the law. Those who insist to be saved by keeping the law are not true sons of Abraham.
The promise of the Holy Spirit may only be received through faith in Christ not by keeping the law. Galatians 3:14 Amplified.
Grace to you all
Sorry, the scripture was Galatians 3:1-29
yes, I agree, Christians should still give the 10th part to the Lord, as in the Old Testament!
I just want to bring in the aspect of giving to God with a cheerful heart. It all belongs to Him anyway. We each know our inner thoughts – and maybe that should be our focus.
dont forget about the widows mite I think that one is that best a teaching this principle. thanks for the list otherwise very complete. Do you know anything about the Mormon’s tithing and offering system? from what I understand they give 10% of everything they make and then give offerings of the money they would have spent on food when they fast. any other info would be appreciated
this arugument is not taking anyone anywhere… everyone has his/her own contious(dont mind my spelling) and Jesus left us with the Holly spirit and if you are saved, you have the Holly spirit in you… so i say, let everyone allow the holly spirit to lead you wether to tithe or not… i believe your contious will tell you what to do… as for me, i stick with
Malachi 3:7-9
Malachi 3:10
where the storehouse is my Local Church…
May God guide everyone to do the right thing, be obidient(because obedience is better than sacrifice) and letthe holly spirit lead you…
DtHANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BIBLE VERSES ON CHRISTIANS TITHING
What’s hard to give up? material things or own life? If someone hold-ups you with a gun, would you resist and be willing to die? or, you would let him get your things and money? of course!! let him have your things and money cause life is far more important than anything like money! once you die, you lost everything but money you can work again and be fortunate that you can have more. but your life is just once.. now, why do you have struggles in giving to God. since, you surrenderred your most precious life. is your money more precious than life? that’s preposterous! hypocrytes! why do we complain about giving 10% of our blessings to the church, since God gave you 100%. shame on you!
ok you don’t believe in tithing, that’s your decission, BUT, how much do you spend on your stuffs.. shopping, extra foods, gadgets etc.. and how much (%) do you give to the church that God has established?
we pay taxes in our country, 10%, 12%, 20% up to 40%. why can’t we give to God who owns eveything including your life?..
giving whole heartedly without complaing shows that we really love God than money.
” If gold is being tested in fire to prove its purity, a man can be tested in handling money to prove his unselfishness.” especially huge amount
1 Tim 6:10
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
NIV
2 Tim 3:1-5
3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
NIV
Please stop! Jesus did it all….God’s invitation to believe in him.. you choose ?
Bruno Who is worthy to recieve and spend the money tithes some entitled priest of Jesus or all priest in Jesus? Ye are a royal priesthood a holy nation. If we all can spend and recieve money tithes, which I think are unbiblical, then we can all set in our hearts what to give and give cheerfully to the ministries which Jesus has lead us to support. If we can set in our hearts then any tithing system is illogical becase tithes were always manditory in the law of Moses.
Bruno do you really believe in spacific places and entitled people that Christians must give 10% of their money or do you believe that all Christians are priest with the power in Jesus to decide where to support even if that support is sending their kids to Christian Schools or
giving money to destiute realitives?
Are Christians free givers or are only some preachers the ones with monitary freedom?
First time here.
I have read some of the comments and would like to add my own please. The time put on this site in answering the questions on tithes remind me of recycled Christians. People when Jesus went to the cross it was to save the world from sin. As you know our feet, hands, &…etc belong to God to use for his glory. God did not died so we could use this site to rehash tithing among fellow believers. We need to mature and do what God commanded take the message of salvation to the lost and stop the inside pettiness. Also we are told not to muscle the ox for a worker is worthy of his pay. Time out. God will work out the tithing why don’t we just do the fishing and let God be god.
Jack We are all priest
Ye are a chosen genneration a royal priesthood a holy nation. The Good sheapards lay their lives down for the sheep- thus the true Christian leaders are not hirelings as Jesus spoke of in John. Jesus explained that Hirelings flee when the wolf comes and the Sheep are damaged. Yes do not musle oxes who are true slaves to Jesus of coarse, however not all Christian speakers who preach on sundays are really pastors. There title on the outside of the fellowship bulding might state somthing about them being a pastor and many people might call them a pastor but a true pastor is the least entitled Christian.
Now how can expecting and demanding 10% of another Christians money help model Cross centered leadership. There is no scripture to support that Christians are in sin if they give money to send their kids to Christian school or support a Charity to the poor instead of giving to a local leader of a Christian organization calling themselves pastors.
I have never heard preached a sermon explaining how Deutreronomy 14:26 with wine tithes that caused joy for the poor and the givers in control. I never heard most tithe scripures how they could apply to Chrisitians today. Why do you think that is so. So friend who should collect these money tithes or are all christians free to give where the Spirit leads. Let everyone set in their hearts where they should give.
I wrote a message to Bonnie explaining that it is true dicipleship to debate these money issues becase there are large matters of sin involved with leaders who expect money. How Can etitled preaching produce Diciples who give up their entitlments? Please respond if you have time. Integrity is not a small issue becase it is part of Christian dicipleship to know a hirling from a true sheapard-Pastor.
Christ in US
Good day brothers n sisters in the Lord.
I don’t get why we have to be so worldly and deny what the word of God Says.Jesus said,He did not come to cancel the law,but to fulfil it.(matthew 5v17-20).I might not be a bible scholar but i believe what he bible say,tithe does not replace what Jesus went on the cross for,He did not cancel the other commandments also,He just emphesises the fact that Love shoul be the root of everything we do.Tithe is so much relevant now,as it was then.It never resembeled sin cleaning then and it doesn’t now.So if you do not tithe,so many scriptures that you knw explains what will happen.
Let’s not fool each other,if you love me,you will keep my commands,that’s what Jesus said.
Hi Deborah, I have some scriptures to give you to read before we can go on futher on this debabte.Please read( Galatians 3:1-29)NKJ and( Galatians 4:11-31)NkJ,AMP. Many christians are mislead into thinking that if you do not keep the sabbath,tithe,cicumcision and all other laws God will not love you or bless you.
False teachers are saying that christians are to keep all the laws that are in the bible but lie when asked if we are to keep all the laws given by Moses in the old testament. Deborah the law can not be seperated by any pastor or teacher,either we keep the whole law or we are guilty of breaking the whole lot.
The Mosiac law says that if we find anyone committing adultry or not keeping the sabbath we are to kill them. Failure to kill these sinners will result in the Nation of Israel being cursed.If you have teenage children and they become rebellious the law of Moses said we have to kill them.If one person fails to pay tithes accoding to the law the bible says the whole Nation of Isreal was cursed.
Anyone who tells you that they can pick and choose which law to keep and which one to ignore is lying to you. They have not only chosen to twist and lie about scripture to get you to give them your money but have sinned against God for not keeping the other six hundred laws tha was given exclusively to the Jews by God.
Read Galatians 5:1-9 NKJ,AMP,NLT
We can not blame pastors or teachers, if we are deceived because we have the bibble.
Deborahh please read Deuteronomy 14:22-29.TITHE LAW CAN NOT BE CHANGED BY ANYONE OR WE ANSWER TO GOD. Find out the truth then you will be free.
If you can not kill people for not keeping the sabbath or committing adultry you are guilty of breaking the law and not obeying God according to the old Covenant between God and the Jews.
I hope these scriptures will help you,
Have a restful day
Good day brothers n sisters in the Lord.
I don’t get why we have to be so worldly and deny what the word of God Says.Jesus said,He did not come to cancel the law,but to fulfil it.(matthew 5v17-20).I might not be a bible scholar but i believe what he bible say,tithe does not replace what Jesus went on the cross for,He did not cancel the other commandments also,He just emphesises the fact that Love shoul be the root of everything we do.Tithe is so much relevant now,as it was then.It never resembeled sin cleaning then and it doesn’t now.So if you do not tithe,so many scriptures that you knw explains what will happen.
Let’s not fool each other,if you love me,you will keep my commands,that’s what Jesus said.
Hi Deborah, Do you understand (Galatians 3:10 ) and ( Galatians 5:4) KJV,AMP,NLT.
Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the sabbath,tithe,circumsicion and all the other Mosiac law ? Or did you believe Christ Jesus by faith ? Please DO NOT MIX THE BLOOD OF JESUS AND BLOOD OF ANIMALS.
The old covenant required offering of animals blood yearly or sin offering and all other offerings given by Moses, the new covenant is made WITH JESUS BLOOD ONLY ONCE
If you read all of Galatians then you will understand what Apostle Paul meant.
Please do not put yourselves under the curse of the law again. Read what Paul said in (Galatians 3:10-11)NKJ,AMP,NLT ITS VERY CLEAR.
I have read the debates above and have picked up a lot of information. I understand the great desire to have in concise words, clearly understandable by all exactly what Christ would have us do today. But the truth is our faith is often worked out by how we struggle with these issues.
The long debate about who is worthy to collect the tithe today is what I find most disturbing. It is not our job to find who is worthy, or to worry about the collecting. It seems to me pretty clear that Jesus wants us all to be generous — radically so! In this day and age when needs abound, when children are dying moment by moment, I think our time would be better spent thinking of how can we give generously enough or tithe to cover the needs. Jesus spoke often on joyful giving, or generous living. That should be enough for us. It would be best if we sought to meet such needs out of our responsive love for such a gracious Savior. For we cannot save ourselves with our generosity.
Bonnie friend and everyone in Jesus. Bonnie What you found most disturbing was people challenging speakers who preach expecing money. These money tithe demanders expect 10% of other Chrisitans cash? Dose Church tithining make better Church leadership. Dose tithe or you are in sin rules help Christians to love more? If you meditate on these kind of questions I suspect you agree that there are huge problems.
Bonnie you stated somthing like “It is not our job to find who is worthy, or to worry about the collecting.” Let me answer you and I hope you reply.
Friends Hard issues are part Christian Dicipleship. On the surface in Galations Paul looks overbearing in his dealing with Peter. Paul rebuked Peter over eating with the Jews because behind his actions were the seeds of racism. Here is a most neglected tithe verse since this post is about tithe verses. On the surface this blog looks pretty petty. However Love looks at smalll looking evils amongs Christian leadership.
“Buy whatsoever your soul lusteth after wine or Strong drink……
In Deuteronomy 14:26 one can see that food tithes brought joy and fellowship with wine. To Many rich religious leaders who were greedy Jesus was hostile. Jesus overturned the temple tables becase the leaders had lost their focus on God. Should we not be the same as Jesus and the Diciples-hard on rich leaders?
How many rich organizational Churches in the U.S. just tolerated segregation in the 1940s-60s and racism. Christian Folks still sent in their money tithes to entitle awful preaching. What do you think friend if you are a priest then don’t you control your giving? Bonnie felloship is hard work and hurting selfish feelings.
Bonnie Thank you for warning us all not to be petty but sister I think you miss our loving points. After geting rid of the traditions of money tithes I think Christians find a new kind of leadeship. They begin to respect the Christians who work hardest and love the most without entitments. Entitled leaders are not the best at teaching self sacrifice. Today Missionaries are less entitled usually buy books and listen to their decipleship is my advice.
If money decreces as a value amongst our so called leaders then more true diciplship can occur. Christian leaders should be those priest who suffer the most. What do you think sister and all who disagree? A more Biblical New testement fundraising in the Church is revolutionary in the direction of more love.
True dicipleship is a contact sport that causes pain. Jesus must increace while we decreace. The world defins Christian leaders as money hungry and greedy. This makes so many Christians stumble everyday including childre.
Parenst struggle to send their kids to Christian schools and colledges so they can be dicipled or give 10% of thier money to christian speaker preachers. True love in Jesus causes us all to decreace.
To everyone This Blog is not about worry, but about loving and painful actions in love which contain rebukes. We are a Chosen generation a royal prieshood. Martin luther of Germany while evangelizing and dicipling rebuked the Catholic Church about demanding money tithes. Charls Spugeon preached against Christian mandates of money tithes and racism while desighning tracts to evangelize.
Jesus breaks all of our entitments exept to his love.
I have read all of these posts with great interest and I would like to add some things to this thread. I am no Bible scholar by any means but I believe there is a mountain of misunderstanding in regards to the tithe and I believe God’s people are suffering greatly because of it.
First; there is a difference between tithes and offerings and I think it is important for us to distinguish that difference. The tithe is one tenth of our increase; God was never vague about this amount and to withhold the tithe is robbing God as he says in Malachi. Offerings are above and beyond the tithe and each man decides for himself what he will give; knowing that the measure with which he sows will be the measure with which he reaps.
I think the debate in regards to tithing comes about through a lack of understanding of what the tithe really is and why God established a tithe. To compare the tithe to stoning an adulteress is just silly. God established the tithe to Bless us. Tithing should never be a burden and if we are not able to pay our childs school tuition because we are tithing then we are doing something majestically wrong. God doesn’t take our money and leave us living in lack. Do you think God needs our money? No, but the tithe was established as an avenue for God to shower us with Blessing. Malachi 6:10 tells us to put him to the test on this.
Jesus came, not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. He came not to take the law away from us, but to take onto himself the curse for disobedience. We don’t kill rebellious teenagers and adulterers because Jesus took onto himself the curse of the law. Is committing adultery still breaking God’s law? Yes! The law is still there and we are still to obey it. But if we stumble and commit adultery we are no longer living under the curse so therefore we no longer stone adulterers but rather, now we have an avenue of redemption and forgiveness through Jesus.
We are to still keep the law. Jesus specifically said “If you love me, you will obey my commands” To say that if we have to tithe then we have to put rebellious teenagers to death shows a lack of understanding. The proper context of that arguement would actually be: if we don’t have to tithe then it’s also okay to murder, cheat, steal and lie because Jesus did away with the law. He did not take away the law, but the punishment he bore for us all.
I believe the tithe has been severely abused and this is partly why so many are so anxious about tithing and reject the concept… and understandably so.
If we look at tithes and offerings as seeds..it is easier to understand the concept of tithing and what God is trying to accomplish through tithing. As an example let’s say you receive a check in the amount of $200. You pay all of your bills and you have $20 left. You were planning to tithe one tenth as God has commanded but as you are looking through a stack of mail you discover an electric bill that is due in the amount of $20. You have a choice to make; what will you do with this $20? Will you honor God with the tithe or will you honor the electric company by paying their bill?
Now what if we looked at it another way? What if we consider this $20 as seed? Where will you sow that seed? Fertile ground or sand? On the one hand, if you give the electric company your $20 that is all that $20 will ever be; $20 come and gone. Whereas, if you gave it to God; His promise is that Jesus, who is our high priest will accept that tithe, Bless it and give it back multiplied. Then you will not only have the $20 to pay your electric bill but an additional amount for other things..like giving to someone in need.
I believe we have to broaden our understanding in this area. Sometimes our view of tithing, among other things, is so narrow and shallow. As long as we look at the tithe as a burden or an impedement to our ability to pay the rest of our bills, we will never see the truth of God’s purpose and intention behind the tithe and we will forfeit many of the Blessings God has for us becuse of our refusal to trust him and trust his word. Sometimes we have a tendency to analyze and pick things apart rather than to just obey what he says to do.
Yes, we are to be good stewards of not only money, but with everything God entrusts to us. We should always seek him out and ask him to direct everything that we do, including where we give tithes and offerings. But if we make a mistake and some pastor takes our tithe and lines his pockets with it what is that to us in the grand scheme of things? Do we not believe that God is capable of protecting what is His? Do we not believe that our God is a God of righteousness and that He sees and knows everything? Do we think God needs our help at directing His finances? Are we forgetting whose money it is that we have in our possession? That tenth is not mine to decide anything. It belongs to God and if I ask him what he wants me to do with it, I believe He is wise and faithful and will direct me. But if I make a mistake and misunderstand and end up giving it to the wrong place, I fully believe that God is capable to set things right.
One last thing I believe we either don’t know of tend to forget is all the promises connected to the tithe. If we tithe just to get money back or we tithe to escape God’s judgement then we are completely missing the point. We tithe out of love and affection to our God; recognizing him as our provider and understanding that everything we have, whether monetary or health etc etc, comes from Him. It is not a hardship to give back a small portion of the vast Blessing that God has given to me. It is an honor and a privelege. God has given us a way to show him our gratitude for all he has done for us. A way to show him that HE comes first in our lives. A way to show him that we remember and appreciate who he is to us. Jehovah Jirah – God my Provider! We should be excited to tithe to God. It is not only a way for us to show our adoration and reverence for who he is..but he has also made it an avenue of Blessing for us. In Malachi 3:11 God promises to rebuke the devourer for our sakes when we tithe. Hello? Who could use a little of that in their life?!? I know I could!
We need to shift our focus on tithing from “Tithe or suffer!” to “tithe and be Blessed” The tithe was never meant as a burden to God’s people. As with everything God does; it was a concept born out of perfect love as a way to Bless and prosper His people.
To make comments that we can separate the Law Moses gave the children of Israel is irresponsible, foolish and uninformed.
The Law God gave Moses included Civil,Judiscial and Ceremonial Law. No one can just change it or choose which law to keep and which law to ignore thats stupid and naive.It was compulsory and not negotiable. Either obey the law or face the consequences somtimes even death.
For anyone to say that we can separate the tithing law from other laws concerning adultry or fornication,sabbath,circumsicion should go and find out why God killed Arrons sons.He was the high priest his sons fornicated near the temple were offerings and cleansing ceremonies were offered by the priest.
Please read Numbers 18:1-3 and Hebrews 8:4 before you make any uninformed comments and mislead christians into deception.
If you want to talk about “CURSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT” Then Please read Galatians 3:10-12 . Paul said if you try and keep the” LAW YOU NEED TO KEEP THE WHOLE LOT”or YOU WILL BE CURSED” This is very serious. Galatians 5:4 is more clear IT SAYS YOU ARE CUT OFF FROM CHRIST or YOU HAVE FALLEN AWAY FROM GRACE.
I bet you,that if you ask your pastor about the law of tithing HE WILL LIE TO YOU BECAUSE HE COVETS YOUR MONEY (10% OF ALL THE SHEEPS INCOME)
Ask your pastor why Apostle Paul did not teach the tithing law in his letters to the early churches or promote sabbath keeping,circumsicion, and all the Mosiac law given to the Jews exclusively.
Remember this Philistines,Egyptians,Americans,Spanish,English,Australians did not have a covenant with God before Jesus. They were not involved or qualified to tithe or to keep any Mosiac law given to the Jews.Malachi was speaking to the Priest who were performing the offerings at the temple, NO GENTILE WAS ALLOWED NEAR THE TEMPLE,NO MONEY WAS ACCEPTED FOR SIN OFFERINGS OR ANY OTHER OFFERING. IT WAS ANIMALS,AND FOOD GROWN WITHIN THE GATES OF ISRAEL
Jacque
I agree with you sending our kids to Christian Schools is equally as important as many other Christian obligations so what do you think of preachers who put it in writing that christian money must first go to their local church which is his ministry. This is stopping kids from being dicipled everyday while supporting a ministry which meets a few times a week.
A change in finacial giving and preaching amongst leadership will produce a different kind of Christian. An entitled preacher will produce more entitled Christians. It is more important what we give instead of how we will be blessed and Who is Anointed. Those words are more entitled than who suffers and Who serves.
You were so correct friend A parents highest responcipility is their children given by Jesus. What should be a priority for most Christians sending their kids to Christian schools or giving money to professional Christian speakers. Jacque your thoughfulness is apparent please answer when you have time.
I also have some more thoughts to try to expand your thinking to recognize the difference between leaders who expect 10% the money tithe preachers and preachers who don’t expect a money tithe those who simply preach giving. Your sysem seems to be in opposition to many churches could you preach your doctrines in your church or would you run into some trouble. Well here they are…
Please Respond to parts as you have time friends. Friend I have many questions for all who support Christian tithe systems. Jacque friend The term freewill offerings is found in the bible why don’t preachers use this term? Do you believe that all preachers anointed by thier congegations as pasters are pastors. I don’t think so neither do we. If the shoe fits wear it for the preachers who are over entitled. They may be leaders of sorts and nice but they are not servant last should be first leaders that Jesus discusses so much. The leaders who suffer the most are the best leaders in the church.
Jacque I love your replys and respect your bravery although many other hard question remain.
Why are so many scriptues about tithes not taught in Churches? Have you experienced a message with Deuteronomy 14:26 in all the messages you have ever heard about tithes? Has anyone heard a message consering the Christian pricipal of eating the tithes? Are there many entitments hidden behind choices of words to describe Christian doctrines. Have you ever been alarmed by Christian leaders entitments? The words Lords Anointed conserning Humble servants seems strange. Are not Christian leaders suppose to be the least entitled and most open to questions. Have an answer to everyone for the hope which lies within you. Paul rebuked Peter in front of otheres in Galations.
This is an example of true servant leadership where the leader wants to endure suffering and is open to critisism. Most Christians are leeery of rich preachers and almost all sinners are very leery of rich and entled preachers. Every tithing sysem produces some etitled to take and those entled to give.
How should Christians apply the pricippal of eating their tithes before the lord including wine and strong drink. If you have no answer that is OK becase most preachers teaching money tithes althouth sincere are dreadfully uninformed about Old testement tithes. Friend how can you state so calmly that words are interchangable tithing and giving. Please make a stand wich word is best for Christian giving today? Early Protestants rejected the terms Pastor and everything assosiated with tithes. All early Protestants believed in giving and so do we. What Christain is against giving?
The words Elders are foud so much more often in the New testement but I believe that entitlment is why many preachers favor the word Pastor. I do not disrespect true pastors and this blog is in favor of all those who lay their lives down for the Sheep and are not hirlings. Jesus determines who the true pastors are preachers are not “anointed” as pastors just becase they went to Bible colledge or were voted in. Jacque friend sureley we agree that not all calling themselves pastors, teachers, evangelist or anministers in the fellowships called churches are truly what they claim to be. I believe most preachers event those preaching money tithes in America are nice guys however they have the tendancy to subjugate others. How can one be a full blown preist if one must give to another priest minitriy?
The word pastors is only found once in the New testement but the traditions of many protestans have filled the word Pastor with many athoritarian meanings including amongst many groups the Idea that those dubbed pastors are entitled to 10% of all other priest money into their ministries.
Jacque you are clearly more informed and less demanding but the word tithes emplys a command or be in sin to most Christians even if you dont use it. One could call your emploees serfs, slaves, underlings, servants and treat them lovingly with all equallity but the words are not equally respectful. Entitlments are shown in the use of words.
Who is entitled to colect the moneytithes and who is obligated to pay money tithes? If you say all Christains are equally entitled to collect a money tithe then your position on giving is very different than the system of tithes found in the Old testement under moses. If you say that a Christian can set in their hearts what to give is this not a much more free system of giving. Why Call Christan giving tithing. Denominations are purposful to stress the term in their doctrinal statments. Most Denominations do not consider giving and Offering and tithing enterchangable. Jacque friend you must have a slightly different more free belief than most Denominations who stress the money tithe.
Additionally friend how can any two words with such different meaning be equal for teaching.
I think the Holy Spirit is calling us to more equality in the Church and more leader sacrifices this is why the word tithes probably should be replaced. Words have effects and some are far more suffering love centered instead of blessing entitlment centered What do you think?
Preachers who feel entitled to the 10% money tithe for their ministries favor using the word tithes tithing and tithe wich occurs less than 10 times in the New testement conserning
Christian giving and only 40 times in the entire Bible. The words Giving, Offering, occur 4 and 5 times as much approximatly. and I am carfull to not dub All Christian leaders of non profit organizations Pastors
So friend what do you believe about that statement Please tell us it is abusive to teach that if one fails to money tithe 10% of income they are not in sin.
Prostesants broke from the Catholic Church with many issues about money. In Protestant groups Anti 10% money tithing was a first doctrinal isssue because of the Prieshood of All Believers. If all believers are priest why do so many preachers teach entitlments to 10% of other Christians cash or they are sinning.
Finally friends and Jacque Where should the Church go conserning money? Is the future more loving with more preachers who get Christians to give 10% of their incomes to save the world? Or is the future more loving with more leaders who expect close to nothing and ask for support never talking about tithe expectations but only preaching giving?
Christians who tithe and say they are just giving to the church to support the work of the Lord are sadly mistaken. Please understand this,tithing is a law and do not try and call it anyother name or try to dress it up as something we can interbret for our own agendas.
Once you quote the blessing in Malachi 3:10 you are ingnoring the curse if you do not comply with this law.With the law there is a curse with Grace we are redeemed by Christ Jesus.
Tithing to be blessed,is the same as keeping the sabbath or giving sin offerings to be blessed.The motive behind practising these laws is to be blessed. Stop trying to hide the reason why you tithe is to be financialy blessed. GIVING TO GET STINKS, its so repulsive and disgusting you want to vomit. Paying for the windows to open is the LIE being used by money hungry wolves to deceive so many christians all over the world. The christians who are caught up in these lies are the ones who want to pursue riches for themslves.
JESUS DID NOT COME TO MAKE US ALL MILLIONARES AND BILLONARES, read the bible and find out what he said about money first then you will understand why false teachers and pastors are promoting money tithes which is an abomination
Praise Jesus James! I have learned somthing I will repeat for the rest of my life!
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“Tithing to be blessed,is the same as keeping the sabbath or giving sin offerings to be blessed.”
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Hi Jacque,
Its good to read your comments on this blog and for christians to discuss this in a more transparent and mature way. I disagree with your comments because the of Moses was given to the Israelites exclusively.
The Mosiac law was not given to the Eygtians,Philistines,Romans, Greeks,Italians Mexicans or Australians …etc Please do not be offended Moses went to Eygpt to free the Israelites only.
Christians only came in through Christ when He redeemed us not before. Gentiles did not have a covenant with God before Jesus Christ died at Galvary.
Tithing was is included in the Law of Moses or Mosiac Law. Jesus said in ( Mathew 23:23 ) that tithing was in the law of Moses.
Please I beg you to go read all of Galatians and find out how Apostle Paul explain it very clearly. Do not try and stop the curse in Malachi 3:9-10. YOU CANT DO IT, ONLY CHRIST CAN REDEEM US FROM ANY CURSE, NOT YOU OR YOUR PASTOR
Stay with Christ Covenant made with His Blood, not the old covenant with the blood of animals.
Hi, Law and Grace do not mix. A woman brought before Jesus caught in adultry,the Mosiac law requires her to be stoned to death.We all know what Jesus said, if anyone who has not sinned throw the first stone. The Law was compulsory no one could keep it. The bible says it enslaved the Jews or a yoke of slavery ( Galatians 5:1) NKJ,AMP,NLT
Paul said in Galatians 3:12 “the law is not of faith”. Tithing was a law given to the Jews by Moses not to gentiles.
Deuteronomy 14:22-29 SAYS ITS THE LAW OF TITHING.
PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE AND LIE ABOUT THE BIBLE BECAUSE OF YOUR LOVE FOR MONEY.
Wow!
Jacque
Wow good or Wow bad? I pray that wow is wow good.
I accidentally posted to you on another line but I hop you are being fed here brother keep searching. Joel and Jackie hi and thankyou for your participation in this fellowship.
Please reply again if you have time
I appreciate all the replies and I actually have studied extensively on giving and tithing. I do open-mindedly consider other peoples positions and I do listen when different positions are presented. I take everything I see and hear to the Lord and ask Him for Wisdom, knowing that He is always faithful to answer and generously give everything I need. This is why I don’t reply right away on posts like this.
The “wow” was me expressing surprise to be met with hostility by another “christian”.
I do believe my post was misunderstood in several areas and part of that is my own fault. I would like to clarify just a few key points:
I do not believe that we are bound by the law in any area of our life in order to make ourselves right with God. What I said was that Jesus fulfilled the law and he took upon himself, not the law, but the curse of the law. I am secure in my salvation by the grace of God through His son Jesus Christ. I fully understand that I am in no way to follow any portion of the OT law thinking that it will make me right with God or relying on any portion of it for my redemption from sin. Please understand for all you who expressed concern in this area that I am in NO WAY suggesting that we can in ANY way earn any portion of forgiveness or redemption.
When I said we have to keep the law, I was referring to the law of Christ. The new covenant law which is the law of love and part of this is giving generously to not only the poor and needy but also to the ministers of Gods word. The law of love encompasses every aspect of the civil and moral laws of the old testament.
Tithing (ceremonial law)is no longer a command to be right with God or to cover our sins. I believe the “law” of tithing in the Old Testament was replaced with the command of “giving” in the New Testament. There is abundant Blessing (not just in finances) attached to giving, but we are not obligated to give any more than we are obligated to be circumcised. Now we do these things as an expression of love to our Lord, as we now are living under the law of love.
I want to talk about comments I have seen repeatedly made on this thread that are very troubling to me. Pastors are accused of being greedy money-mongers for teaching on tithing and giving. I think we need to be exceptionally careful in regards to sitting in judgement of a man of God. God says “touch not my anointed”. A pastor can be anointed and still be mistaken in some area. I do agree there are some out there who are greedy and have the wrong motives, however, every pastor that teaches on giving is not a greedy money-lover and I believe it is a VERY big mistake to throw that accusation around as a blanket statement. It is possible that some honestly misunderstand the concept of tithing and giving, however, Galatians 6:6 and 1Tim 5:18 teach that we should provide for the teachers of Gods word.
While you will not find teaching in the New Testament that says you must “tithe” 10% of your increase to the church– I believe what you will actually see is that the limitations have been lifted and as Christians we are compelled to generously give back to God a portion of what he has so generously given to us. We should never use the fulfillment of the law to wriggle out of giving to churches and men of God who are out there helping the poor, teaching the gospel and doing what God has called them to do to further the kingdom of God. These things cost money and we, as Christians should support them with every means we are able to. Whether it is spiritually in prayer or financially in giving. This is the work the Lord has called them to and it is right for them to be paid for their work just as much as it is right for someone else to be paid for working in a secular job.
Yes the laws were given to the Jews… but have you forgotten that we gentiles have been grafted into the same tree through Jesus? The levitical priesthood has been fulfilled. The work of Moses is finished, the work of Abraham is not. Jesus is the high priest after the order of Melchizedek. Through Jesus we are connected directly to the Blessings of Abraham as clearly stated in Galatians 3:9,28. Through Jesus we are adopted into the family of God and God is no respecter of persons. We are not excused from the law because we are not Jews… we are excused from the law because Jesus fulfilled the law and bore all sin and curse on the cross for us so that now we all; Jews and Gentiles, are not subject to the curse of the law when we accept jesus as our savior. Make no mistake though, both jews and gentiles will suffer the curse of the law, as listed in deuterononmy 29 if they are not under the covering of the shed blood of Christ.
Lastly, the point of my post is meant to be that there is abundant protection and Blessing tied to the tither. I am a believer in tithing and I do call it tithing but I can just as easily call it giving..to me, it is the same concept–to honor God with a portion of what He has so graciously provided me with :) I don’t do it because I am under the law–I don’t do it to avoid punishment–I don’t do it because I think it will save me or put me in a higher standing with God–I do it because I love Him and I want to acknowledge Him as my provider and because I want to follow the example of Abraham who lived and walked by faith and who because of his faith, was abundantly blessed.
Even though tithing is not a “law” that we HAVE to follow; it is a principle that we should live by in order to have every Blessing that God has for us. We put ourselves under the curse that Jesus delivered us from when we do not live by faith.
I posted to you below Jacque but here are futher questions for everyone for thought who believe in required tithes for Christians. I have a problem with preachers using one scripure to teach great pricipals and passing over other scriptures wich tend in the other direction. Jacque I have written you alot thank you for your patience. I cannot understand how incompleet the current tithe doctrines are becase they use so few scriptures. The Tithe Denominations and preachers make ordinary Christians fill in the blanks in the doctrine without discussing thier freedoms and exemptions. For example the poor did not pay tithes in the Old testement so how can that be applyied today?
What Christian money tithe supporting preacher clearly states all of their beliefs using all 40 or at least 20-30 of the tithe scriptures to support their points. Usually preachers use less than 15 scriptures bouncing all around the Bible. Have you seen this tendancy or am I being unfair. Why is Deuteronomy 14 perhaps the longest section in the bible on Tithing mostly unknown amongs most Christians. What did you think when you read about the Strong drink and wine tithes. Thats my kind of freedom.
How do you think many preachers sin by teaching money tithes? Where do you think many not all preachers go overboard? Additionally, My favorite question How should we Christians Today apply eat the tithe pricipals of Duteronomy 14:26. Plus along with that, why are so few scriptures on tithes acctually taught in most churches that believe in tithing? “The Eat the tithe” phrase occurs more than 3 times while the test me phrase only occurs one time, in Malichi. Why is
Tithe teaching so incompleet? Are Preachers cherry picking? Why did God only require food tithes to the Levites and not a money tithe. What are the pricipals of no percentage of money required for Levites and prest apply for Christians today? I wish there was more expanation but mabey one could not have a doctrine of tithing that could apply to Christians today. What is wrong with simply calling Christian giving giving. Set in your hearts what you should give….Jesus loves a Cheerful giver.
On the tenth means those who had nine sheep tithed zero so the ten percent is holy thing is not correct. If somone wanted to pay their tithes in cash instead of food they had to add 20% on top so that is 12%. There were more than one tithe some most theologians argue that the tithes were over 30% for land owners and zero for non land owners. Fishermen were exempt as were the poor so Why have preachers neglected to show how complicated the commanded food tithes of the Old Testement. Is not saying the 10% pricipal to the storehouse a gross oversimplifacation. Do you have a problem with the Holy 10% of cash concept?
But mabey I am wrong, Are Old testement tithe systems misrepresented by most preachers? What do you think?
Nobody Needs to answer every question I have presented but how could one set about obtaining an income based on money tithes and have very few answers about the tithe sysem of the Old testement. Friends who agree with tithing, I love your bravery to answer.
Christ in US
Jacque, To change the tithing law (food grown in Israel) to MONEY is a serious matter. Maybe these false teachers want to change other laws that will give them more financial reward for serving God. I am deeply grieved by the way these christian leaders have twisted and deliberate misinterbret scriptures to line their pockets. Paul called these people in Galatians 3:1 “WITHCHES” because only withches perform witchcraft or cast spell on people.
To manipulate or control others is called witchcraft, and to lie about scriptures to control and deceive other christians is even worse. Think about this very carefully because these are the very people that Paul “CURSED” and its recorded in the Galatians 1:8-9. That curse still stands to this very day. I suggest that no christian will want to test that curse by Paul if its still working or not. Paul spoke that curse in the power of the Holy Spirit. God made sure we read about that curse so no one will have an excuse when we violate what Paul taught.
Jacque, Tithing is a law that God gave Moses and he instructed Moses to make sure the Israelites followed every commandment very carefully or else they will suffer.
Whoever told you that we are allowed to change from food tithing given in book of Deuteronomy 14:22 ,Malachi 3-10, Mathew 23:23 to money lied to you to get their hands on your money.
Please give whatever amount you want in an offering but do not use tithing scriptures because its dangerous to twist and lie about scripture for financial gain. Freewill giving is for everyone now. You can reject or accept the gospel God does not force you to believe in him.Paying and giving are not the same thing
Money in the time of Jesus had an engraved image of Ceasar on it. The high priest and the priest who ministered at the Temple refused to allow any currency with an image of an atheist in the Holy Temple of the Lord. Honestly can you see why God will not allow money to be used for the tithe.
MONEY IS NOT HOLY ON TO GOD, ISRAELS TITHE WAS HOLY ON TO GOD.
You and I can not say that money is Holy on to God because there is an image printed or engraved on it.
JESUS said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and to God what belongs to God.
Our hearts is what God wants and our love empowered by the Holy Spirit.
If God is our treasure that is where our heart will be also.We give to God because we love him not because of the law of tithing or 10%. God has access to all I have 100% anytime.
He is not a waiter that I tip for serving me with 10%, He is my saviour and Lord He can have all that I have my heart,money and all of me.
Jacque, Please read ( 1 Timothy 6:5 AMP) then you will understand why pastors and teachers around the world change from food tithing that is in the bible to money. No one is allowed to change Gods Law anytime to line their pockets or to defraud people for profit.
Fraud using scriptures is very serious.
Jesus is the Word of God we can not lie or change what He said or commanded for profit,money or to raise funds for our bills.
Jacque Thank you for challenging us for putting down preachers. I will write mostly about entitlments but eat the tithe questions remain. For my birthday anyone who supports Church tithes please explain Deuteronomy 14:26 Strong drink tithe and eat the tithe pricipals for Christians today. What about eat the tithe pricipals? Everyone also, Test this blog to see where we actually go against scripture because we want the Challenges from the word.
In my opinion, most of us, put down those who we suspect that burden others unnecessarily. However these challenges are in love. We want more real suffering Pastors who are more like missionaries. Thank you for sharing Jacque. Your money tithing position seems less burdensome than that of most denominations because you have not said that if one fails to money tithe 10% to the local church they are in sin. Those who believe in money tithe or Sin feel heavy guilt and spread heavy guilt. We are here to rescue those. So Jacque you are closer to us than to the standard Tithe or sin preaching which most evangelical Christians in the U.S. believe. Jacque because you seem more thoughtful than many I have written you and all Christians who support money tithing a novel. I am very leery of the Lords anointed attached to preachers don’t you feel a bit uncomfortable with that phrase?
This post rambles but I hope you get my drift. Entitlement for Christian leaders is what I am against because all priests have near equal entitlements to other priest money. Preachers should ask instead of demand through the words tithes. We are not against asking for money or being well paid. Jacque do you agree that Tithing implies more of a demand or law while other giving words in the New Testament imply more choices for Christians? Jacque do you agree that employing the word tithes is in the direction of more entitlements to Christian leaders? I accuse so called Pastors who might not be pastors in the eyes of Jesus as hirelings because of expecting 10% of all Christian’s money who attend their ministries. What do you think of such preachers? Yes most are misinformed but why do they call themselves leaders when they accidentally take expect too much money. Christian leadership quality #1 is Loving sacrifice. Additionally conserining the lords Anointed I do not believe in clergy/parishioners distinctions like the Catholic Church.
All Christians are priest in the New Testament. However Everyone stumbles in the pride arena. I have been a proud hireling myself in the past and now because I was once a paid youth leader. Today When I fail to work suffering in love I am in it for myself. This is what I accuse many pastors, failing to suffer the most. The first should be last! Things were better and more effective for Jesus when I did my ministry without pay or connected to a tithe tradition church. We all have entitlements but Jesus wants to destroy them all. For example too often I think I am entitled to bad spelling and poorly though out long post ha ha. But seriously friends…
Here is a wiki definition. And remember Anointed occurs less than 5X in the New Testament if my count is correct.Additionally Pastors occur one time and the word Entitlement occurs zero times. Please consider, Should Christian leaders feel Entitled to a money tithe?
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“An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation. A “right” is itself an entitlement associated with a moral or social principle, such that an “entitlement” is a provision made in accordance with legal framework of a society. Typically, entitlements are laws based on concepts of principle (“rights”) which are themselves based in concepts of social equality or enfranchisement.”
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Jacque what do you think friend?
Finally, . Those who feel entitled often speak with a high degree of control words, would you agree Friend? Who are the Lords Anointed and what do you think Touch not the Lords anointed means for a Christian? Are not All Christians the lords anointed because we have Christ in US. Are all Christians priest in your opinion? Well I have given everyone many Questions friends. When leaders use the phrase “The lords Anointed” in many Denominations including Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and Sects I detect an organizational annoyance with Questions. Jacque thank you for asking and receiving Questions becase Openess, answering Questions and studying involves suffering and work. This gift of suffering I want for Christian leaders. Jesus will give suffering to every believer to help them deny themselves. All who live godly will suffer!
Christ in US!