The Barna Group just released some new statistics on tithing and donations for 2007. – here. Interestingly enough George Barna takes a stand against tithing as a legitimate practice in the New Testament Church. This is all kind of exciting to me, because i’m in the middle of reading the book, “Pagan Christianity” by Frank Viola and George Barna. I am about two-thirds of the way through and i can’t seem to put the book down. I will write a post about that when i’m finished it, but i just mentioned it because i had just finished up the chapter on “tithing”. Ironic. . . i guess.
I just want to highlight some things that were said:
“Whether they believe in the principle of tithing or not, few Americans give away that much money.”
I would like to point out that greed is not biased to non-tithers. I’ve heard many a times that Tithing is an antidote for greed. The reason why tithing does not over come greed is because tithing is not the master of greed. A pure heart, that is undefiled and led by the Spirit of God is the master of greed. Tithing has no power over sin, but the Spirit does. This is confirmed because although Israel had tithing completely spelled out for them, they still had to overcome their greedy hearts. Also regardless of whether our giving is plainly spelled out for us through tithing or is an unpredictable factor through spirit-led giving, we still have to listen and obey. In other words, just because how much we should give is written in black and white compared to Spirit led giving, which is not; we still have to put down our selfishness and obey one or the other.
“Strangely, tithing is a Jewish practice, not a Christian principle espoused in the New Testament. The idea of a tithe – which literally means one-tenth or the tenth part – originated as the tax that Israelites paid from the produce of the land to support the priestly tribe (the Levites), to fund Jewish religious festivals, and to help the poor. The ministry of Jesus Christ, however, brought an end to adherence to many of the ceremonial codes that were fundamental to the Jewish faith. Tithing was such a casualty. Since the first-century, Christians have believed in generous giving, but have not been under any obligation to contribute a specific percentage of their income.”
Barna also mentions the 3 functions of the tithe. Support the Levites, fund Jewish religious festivals, and to help the poor. At this point i see the Church doing a good job of fulfilling one out of three of those tasks. That’s if you want to equate support of the levites with support of those who are ministering. If we were busy trying to build God’s kingdom instead of our own kingdom, i think we would be doing a much better job with fulfilling the other functions of the tithe (not that i want the tithe and all it’s purposes incorporated into the Church). Just hypothetically speaking.
During the first five years of the decade, an average of 84 cents out of every dollar donated by born again adults went to churches. In the past three years, though, the proportion has declined to just 76 cents out of every donated dollar.
I find this statistic very, very interesting indeed. This is saying that for the first five years since 2000 that of all the donations given, 84% of them were given to Church organizations, but since the past three years, only 76% of the total donations had been given to Church organizations. So people have been giving 8% less to their churches and giving it to some other organization. I don’t know, to me, that is a big jump. Think about it this way, imagine if 8 out of 100 people stopped giving the money to their church and instead gave it to the Red Cross. Hmmm, very interesting. Maybe a little wake up call for our greedy Church budgets. You can read more about my thoughts on the house church movement and its effect on Church budgets
“If this transition in the perceptions and giving behavior of born again adults continues to accelerate, the service functions of conventional churches will be redefined within the next eight to ten years, and conventional churches will have to adopt new ways of assisting people in need.”
That was a part of Barna’s interpretation of what the statistics are telling him. And i agree.
What’s your thoughts on the new tithing statistics and trends? Do you think Barna is on target with his analysis? Do you think this blog is on target?
Related Posts
- Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola & George Barna
- Why is Giving Down?
- A Spirit-led Response to Tithing
- House Church Attendance Puts the Pressure on Conventional Churches and Its Finances
Tags: barna, church, giving, statistics, stewardship, tithing
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THE tithe is going back to the old testament and teaching
some of the mosiac laws, not all but only that which fits mans greed. The below scripture in the new covenant teaches the old covenant is history. Please read this.
Heb.8 KJV
[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
George Barna is right on target with his assessment.
I have been doing research on my own to determine what is true and what is not true about the “Tithe” in the N.T. Church. I do not take this lightly.
For years, my husband and I have cheerfully given “tithes” and “offerings” because this is what we were taught.
Now, we have learned that the scriptures do not address a specific percent of our income to be used as a “tithe”.
Jesus taught the disciples that we are to cheerfully give offerings and alms to the church, so that the gospel message can be sent out to everyone and the poor is taken care of. To me, this means that we are to support the local ministry where we are being ministered to. There are salaries to be paid, building maintenance to be done, utilities to be paid, etc.
We are not under the Law, but under Grace.
I am currently reading a book from 1979, written by J. Vernon McGee. He writes about Malachi. I would advise anyone who has questions about the O.T. tithe read this book. Dr. McGee has done extensive research on this Minor Prophet. We have taken this topic very seriously and have decided for ourselves that we will use only the words “offerings” and “alms” when we give to our local church.
When it comes to a determination about how much to give, each person needs to be led by the Holy Spirit. The really important thing about this is to be consistant.
For instance, we are on social security. At the beginning of the month, we determine how much we can give, and we divide that amount into 4 Sundays; so that we can give something each Sunday. We determined that we, personally, need to be givers in our local church. We also give or “tithe” of our time in our local church. That is the most important thing when we are being servants of God.
I believe that most people use the word “tithe” interchangeably with “offerings”.
Please, let’s get off of the legalistic merry-go-round when it comes to using these words.
The most important thing is that we, as Christians, are doing what Jesus said for us to do. Go forth, and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, and Him, crucified. We need to be doing this and making disciples of those who come to Salvation.
The account of the widow who gave all, two mites, reminds of that our Lord honors generous giving. She gave not 10 but 100%. Wow!
You amaze me..you still don’t get it??? She was a WIDOW..that’s who should have been getting some of the Tithe that others gave to the Priests? however she actually gave as well? she’s not required to and as a matter of fact I think that the 2 Mites as you call them where from what she may have been given by the priests but she still gave them back..you guys are crazy, Pastors should go out and get a job period and stop being lazy.
Z Anderson,
Thanks for your comment. I see what you’re saying, but when you talk about how much the widow gave, you are still focusing on the amount as the important formula. As we can read in Luke, there was a steward who actually gave 100% of it back as well, but was not considered a good steward. Whether 1% or 100%, the amount is not the sacrifice that God desires.
When Jesus looked at the law he didn’t tend to eliminate old rules, but escalate them. Before it was “do not murder” now it is “do not hate.” Before it was “do not commit adultery,” but now we are not even to look lustfully at a woman.
————
Matthew 23:23
23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
————
They were already tithing (as has been pointed out, in the old testament this was literally 10%). Jesus says they should be! and more. Give your wealth, but be sure you’re taking care of those in need too.
Protestants in the Philippines, regardless of denomination – church or cult – are being pushed to tithe by their pastors. Catholics do not tithe. Tithe is a legal term and is integral or inseparable part of the OT Law. Jesus said “The truth shall set you free.” Free from what? Free from the OT Law, of course! If we are free from the OT LAW, we are free from tithing – but NOT free from giving to the poor and for the suport of pastors and their families, according to the dictates of our hearts as Christians, and to support congregation-approved church out-reach activities and projects. But Protestant pastors do not teach their congregations this TRUTH. If your heart says 10% (of your committed income base), so be it. BUT THIS IS NOT TITHE THAT JUSTIFIES PASTORS TO CITE MALACHI! Another TRUTH is that the CURSE and TITHING cannot be separated. The term should never be used in Christian churches. Protestant pastors in the Philippines know this. Hence, their favorite set of verses with tithing sermons is Malachi 3:8-12. Is this not outright deception? Again, another TRUTH is that OT tithing was land tax to the LORD payable to the priesthood, hence only produce and products of the land were taxed. Malachi rightly declared that the Israelites that received land from God in Canaan are “ROBBING GOD” if and when they failed or refused to pay the TITHES!
Dr. Isabelo S. Alcordo, Ph.D. (Sci.)
http://www.layadvocacyforchristianunity.org
Valencia City, Bukidnon, Philippines
Usher: You go George!
First of all I would like to respond to Z Anderson | 15/04/08 when the The account of the widow who gave all, two mites, well you know that passages means alot more than her giving 100%.In fact remember she was a widow?remember in the Old Testament widows are supposed to be supported by Gods people rather than them giving?what an example!so in fact she was not obligated to give anything at all but yet they took from her??I am very passionate about this “Tithing”, it is mentioned in the NEW Testament however not taught? I mean all these clever people who make assumptions on Tithing actually being a requirement as a Christian to follow and also add that it’s the only way to be blessed are nothing but notions of the flesh and merely Worldly in their approach.We have already being blessed according to his Riches in Glory through Christ Jesus as we are told in the New Testament. Now I am all for giving however this 10% giving is nothing but nonesence and only for the Gullible, Are we not to give 100% of ourselves to God as we no longer live but he in us, are we not servants of God and suppose to Die Daily to ourselves instead of playing this bless me bless you game and loosing focus on what our calling is rather than being led by the Flesh and paying 10% in order for God to bless us back when in fact he already has, please forgive me but I am in fact saddened by how easly led people are.Church is for equipping people (Christians)to go back out to share the good news and yes also fellowship and most importantly Worshipping the LORD, it’s not meant for a social event where people turn up to meet for a chat, pay their 10% tithes and think that they are doing the right thing!Greed is the number 1 let down of today and it has also crept into the Church with all the nonesence of if you give God will bless, well first of all Christ tells us in the Gospels that when you do something good and in private without blowing your trumpet your father in heaven will see this and reward you, too many people I know that practice tithing in fact look down on people who don’t and this irks me.Why would God want to give us riches here on Earth when first of all it won’t last, and in fact all that is in this life will fade away??? but yet people believe God wants us to be Rich in this life and that’s why we should tithe and so on and so forth.Please excuse my punctuation and spelling, God Bless you all in Christ.
I do not believe the Scriptures support a New Testament tithe. However, I love the specifics of what to do with the tithe in Deuteronomy 14. Enjoy it and help the Levites who have no inheritance! Then every 3rd year give it all to the Levites, the widows, and the poor. If the church practiced this, we would eliminate world poverty!
Usher: Deak, do we eliminate world poverty or buy Kenny C. a 20 million dollar jet?
Deacon: I think we should buy Kenny his jet – after all, he’s annointed ;)
deaconandusher.wordpress.com
Bahahahahahaha well said, yeah buy him a Porcelain Toilet seat to sit his backside onto it like one of the TV Evangelists did and mind you it only cost him $6500.00 US Dollars (peoples Tithes) Don’t worry about the hungry or Poor God will look after them.
To all those who are looking for a reason to not tithe:
Well here’s the deal…you go to McDonalds and you pay for your meal. You go to a football game and you have to buy a ticket. You go to the mall and you dont leave there with your selections without paying. Its only when it comes to church that you expect it to be free. WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD PAY THE MORTGAGE ON THE CHURCH, THE ELECTRIC BILL, THE HEAT, AND THE SALARY OF THE PEOPLE WHO SERVE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY? Whether you call it a tithe or not isn’t really the point is it? The point is you looking for a reason to not give. Sad commentary that many of you have no problem getting immersed in debt but then wonder why on earth we still have poverty all around the world. If you actually were giving to the poor and volunteering then you could make the argument that you dont need to give at church, too. But you aren’t, are you?
Mate we don’t look at reasons to not tithe but the truth!This will set you free and not bind you up.So how do you feel now that you came out with these clever assumptions, When i go to Church I do not need to give nothing but myself , if you want to be a pastor then go out and get a job also to support your family and pay the bills.No you just sit around trying to listen to your own fleshy thoughts about people turning up on Sunday with the Bill Money, you must be joking right? The Bible is in Black and White and no where i am told to pay for the organisations bills and wages.If I was offer to train / coach youth or adults in a sport as a volunteer do i then expect pay? no I don’t (Registration Fees are fair) pay bills and I work to get paid, Tell me what do you do more for God than any of us to deserve what you saying? how would you know what and how much others are doing for Gods church? Assumptions huh? Anyhow you should be doing your job and relying on God to support your needs not others, that’s your calling and like all these TV Avangelists who are being EXPOSED you too will be also EXPOSED, so be careful with the words you use and also stop the thing about Poverty blah blah blah, if you are so concerned than what are you doing about it? Who are you to Judge Gods Servants, when you are merely just a man and have no right, Go and get a job if you want your Social club to grow and God will cause his Church to grow without you and your monetary issues, May God open you eyes and remember “Love” in Christ our Lord and Savior…
Usher: Hey Deak, when you go to McDonald’s, do you pay?
Deacon: Nope, I eat out of the dumpster
Usher: Kind of equivalent to the quality of stuff we get from the modern church ‘eh – just good enough to throw in the dumpster?
Deacon: I don’t see much from the modern church worth giving to. Very little ever goes into furthering the kingdom. It pays for a fat man’s salary who gets his credibility from an academic institution and orates to fat lazy christians in padded pews. So where’s the value in that?
Sam: Hey Deak enjoy your meal, and what’s for desert?
Deacon: Lots of coffee cake from the women’s “aglow” meeting where they crochet doilies and drink coffee – ha!
Haha ok enjoy it and may God blees you!
It is amazing at some of the name calling that is mentioned over tithing, not exactly New Testament language. Jesus and the Disciples preached from the scripture known as the “Torah.”
Furthermore our missions funded by tithing is helping people around the world. Most if not all denominations would increase their missions proportionately if people would get back to Biblical tithing. It has been my experience that most people who do not tithe (10%) do very little to further the Kingdom of God.
Bill Koon
Do you believe that all belevers are priest? If all Christians are priest then who has the athority to require a tithe to be paid from another priest? Martin Luther used a similar argument against the Catholic Church and their money tithes.
Christian leaders who sacrifice the most are the best Christian leaders. Christian leaders who expect the most payment from other Christians are the worst Christian leaders.
Jon the Baptist the greatest preacher of the old tesement collected no tithes. He suffered. Missionarys are the Christians who gennerally suffer the most and in U.S. evangellical churches and they usually do not colect money tithes but they ask for offerings. This is how Christian money should be raised.
Christian Schools are usually run on offerings and most Christan charities are run on offerings. Christian Money tithing is less voluntary it is usually practiced as some form of give or you are in sin idea.
Jesus collected a money tithe in the New testement from no one. Paul and Peter collected no money tithes from what is written in the N.T. They did give to the poor. Martin luther the great protestant reformer collected no tithes and said that tithing belongs only to the Old testement. so why should any pastors today collect tithes?
The telivagelist on T.V. come to mind. These guys on T.V. talk the most about other Christians responcibilities to give to the telivangelist ministries.
It has been my experience that those who demand money tithes the most and require money tithes the most are the highest paid and worst preachers.
All Christians are priest so all Christians must be the best ministers they can be and give only to the best ministries where the Spirit of Jesus leads them. Christian leaders should be first to sacrifice and last to expect payment.
Christ in US
Bill Koon = Confusion, Bill do you actually stand by what you say about Tithing? If you do then you are in error, you need to go back to elementary teachings of the Bible.The bible is according to the Inspired word of The Lord and not Bill Koon, now start telling the truth Bill and stop relying on money to do all the saving, that was in your own life that you would have done those type of things and expected to buy out the whole world…You need to remember that Father Abraham paid Tithe but never ever received it??? Maybe you have woken 1 day and thought that you were a levitical Priest? Come on stop the assumptions and go back Bill, Why do you people always think that your more clever than others?As far as I am concerned this is a trap and a temptation for Greedy people or should I refer to them as Wolfs to come into the Church and confuse giving of not just offerings but also volunteering to assist or offer your time to help..Instead all you hear from these types is give 10% and all will be well, if that was the case then it won’t work Bill cause it didn’t in the old Testament where God called the receivers Thieves? Then People like you who still practice this Law use these situations with the help of your father to convince gullible people to practice Tithing.. By the way Bill are you a Seventh Day Adventists or what denomination are you?? May God Bless us and Correct us so that we can go forward and not backward or sideways, in Christ Jesus.
Wow! Keep er up boys. Satin is loving this. Why God works through men and angles I will never know. All I know is that it is about an 12 inch connection between a man’s wallet and his heart. If man stops giving to a bad church nothing is lost. If a good church is cut off of funding by the saints, it also dies. This is not question of how much, it seems more to be a question of if you should give. The big deal seems to be if there is any accountability in giving. Of course there should be no accountability because we are free! I love this feedom talk! If you succeed in getting people stop giving, evangelism stops. I am not smart enough to know how God works. All I know is God works through men and Angels. God smiles on those who surrender to Him. Have fun with your own thought boys.
My Brother in Christ I certainly agree with you regarding giving however when it comes to false teaching and deception we need to alert each other? I am all for giving for the purpose of giving however Tithing is different and missused by these greedy selfish vermon who call themselves Christians..Give and support the Gatherings of the Bretheren and also Missions but to fill the pockets of these liars I am against, these people actually turn people away from giving eventually because people do wake up..It seems to me that people become too complacent and trusting and these wolves prey on them..Everyone needs to return to the Scriptures..Especially the New Testament Scriptures and see that when these self-confessed clever people preach a sermon which sounds very convincing and hyped up..However they are in error and should not continue. These days I don’t know about you but it’s actually more consistant to the point of almost making me want to vomit all over them, false religious liars who try to convince people that all the riches are here on Earth where in fact they are wrong..The bible clearly says that ” what you bought in this world you will also take out of this world”, I agree with you but not them, yes give by all means but without the the motive these preachers insist on. Support the real Followers and beware of the money handlers, Race be with you and please don’t take it the wrong way as nothing is impossible for God our Father, The Bible tells us everthing from the start to the finish and money is not the main drive here if you know what i mean..Soon we will be moving over to a new monetary system and these guys will fade out anyhow??The Lord led the Israelites out of Egypt and supported them for forty years etc.. I don’t get it when say at the end that the Evangelism is going to stop when we stop giving??Do you doubt the Power of the Cross and the Word of God???God comes first my brother and all money is something man made which is also corruptable and has caused more bad than good??It’s you that God want to give more so, cause you are commisioned to do so, Spread the Good news whereever you go and forget these Hypocrites who dress up on Sunday and stand up on stage with their Gold watches and Swade Shoes blah blah blah thinking they are a success when they are puffed to the eyeballs, God Bless!
I’m very saddened by all of this vicious talk. It breaks my heart. To think that a conversation about giving could stir up so much hatred, and that those who hate think they are justified in their hatred. Check your hearts guys.
If u want God to give u life, give your life. If u want God to give u money, give him money.
When u done unto the least of these my brethren.
Let the WORD of God be true and every man be a lie. Believe the BIBLE.
Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
God says if u give,
he will give to you.
Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
God says if u give, he will give to you.
NEW TESTAMENT
The bible is correct about giving however don’t try to use this scripture to justify Tithing cause that would mean that you’re being crafty and deceptive??Maybe you’re not and i hope you are not cause in general giving is everything but does not associate itself with Tithing or anything legalistic, Remember God Loves a Cheerful Giver, not someone who has to give 10 % each week religiously..May God Bless you for re-enforcing Giving and doing away with Tithing.
I believe that tithing should still be a part of the Christian lifestyle. Give 10% or more to God. Church tithing is suppose to be furthering the kingdom of God. It is on their concience now but I would still want to know how much the church took up and where it is going. Tithing is suppose to be in obedience to God saying “thanks for blessing me” or “even in the tough times I will obey you.” It is one of the ways to show obedience to God, keep his house in repair (so people will come), and expand his kingdom.
…So, it’s true: We have been set free from tithing and sacrifices under The Law…
I cannot imagine facing God and trying to argue – having been set free from the law of sin and death, living with the glory of His presence in the temple of our bodies, our bodies the bride of Christ – that we ought to be giving LESS of our resources, including our money. After all, Jesus talked a lot about money – and He has asked us for ALL of what we are and possess.
We no longer need to support the priesthood as part of a governing theocracy, but it makes sense that we would support the work of full time preachers, teachers, evangelists and missionaries. Convert past practices of almsgiving into donations for the care of widows and orphans and our target giving would be well over 10%.
In my younger years, before I mastered the ability to make money, we lived frugally but as a young family we spent more than I could make and our giving was sporadic. This was during the recession of the late 1970’s and 1980’s. Our giving might have been a measley 2%.
As I learned the art of making money, and my children grew up and out of the house, I had the ability and made the commitment to give more – at least 10%.
As I am learning how to generate wealth, and as God chooses to bless me, I am committed to giving even a greater portion – as my witness and testimony to God’s provenence – rather than caving to consumerism. And yet I have plenty to spend on extras, just not as much as I would otherwise.
One day, if my earning power continues to grow, and as I grow in my understanding of living a contented life, I hope my giving exceeds 20% and more. And I know that many men and women are giving more.
Do I think everyone should do so? This is what I think: Everyone should give as they have been blessed, with a generous and thankful heart… they will receive a blessing for it. You could probably quote Jesus saying something similar.
J. Burton if you desire to stay under the Law then by all means it’s your choice. Giving is totally different from Tithing? We are under no LAW so please rise above it and God doesn’t need your 10% each week, give to those who cannot repay you said the Bible, so why would I give religiously or under a legalistic expectation to God the Almighty and expect to be paid back?? We already have been bless,We have been set free, and of course although we are Christians it does not mean we will live this life of Luxury, never get sick or go without?you’re deceived friend?Read the bible cause when I read it (with a clear mind) I read that many people went thru hard times eg trials and tribulations,be real how are non-believers going to turn to God when all we hear is about the “Bless Me Club”.Tell me J.Burton what happens to those who do not Tithe???Do they get locked out side or does it not rain on them??you tell me, I pray for you to have freedom in his precious name Christ amen.
Tithing in OT was a principle. In the NT the practical principal was revealed when God loved so much the world that he GAVE something (his son). That’s why the early church was against percentages as Jesus taught. The early church would sell their properties and give it for the gospel. Paul would preach GIVE with a good heart and happily, and what you afford. This is why when Ananias gave Peter a PERCENTAGE….He was seduced by Satan to lie to the Holy Spirit and he perished.
EZEQUIEL 16:23 ” ‘Woe! Woe to you, declares the Sovereign LORD. In addition to all your other wickedness, 24 you built a mound for yourself and made a lofty shrine in every public square. 25 At the head of every street you built your lofty shrines and degraded your beauty, offering your body with increasing promiscuity to anyone who passed by.
I personally give because Jesus gave me everything… but I don’t look at percentages (sometimes I have given more sometimes less), and I like to give not always to the church but to people that need..specially in my family…. Take care guys
After perusing the vehement remarks about the tithe I am reduced to only one thought that I can offer, namely: simply read my book which will be published by Tate this year. In it I discuss the tithe, offerings and alms. These three things abide by different rules and serve different purposes. Another scholarly book is written by Gary North on the subject. Check it out. I appreciate Barna and all of the others that continue to bring sanity to the fold. He may not agree with my treatees, but that’s OK. We just need to keep it clean. Blessings.
There’s no spell check here so please overlook. Thanks.
I notice that everyone wants to relegate tithing to the OT Law. If anyone is referring to the law as the 10 commandments, the tithe is not mentioned in the law. There are indeed instructions in the OT ordinances and precepts about tithing as obedience to God and supply of the ministry or temple priest. But their referance and instructions begin in Genesis with Abram and Melchisedec (the preincarnate Christ). The tithe is of promise, covenant and faith, not of the law as Gal.3:17 states that the law which came 430 years later cannot annul any part of the covenant or promise based on faith. I would suggest that tithing is still of FAITH and Not of the law as it never was.
Paul in Rom. 11:16 trying to make another point, refers to the tithe (the firsfruits) if holy as it surely was…..in fact makes the whole holy, just as good roots makes a good tree.
This is not complicated. But it is complicated to the wise men after the flesh, the mighty, the noble, the wise and the prudent. God has chosen the foolish, weak, and despised to confound the wisdom of this world. I Cor 1:19-29.
Don’t wake me. I would rather stay simple and believe than wise and doubt. Call me the dummy, but a happy and blessed tithing dummy. Regretfully, today the windows of heaven are still closed for some folks.
Francis,
Thanks for your comments. I know what you are trying to say but the basis on which you say tithing is of faith is the same you could use for circumcision. Both circumcision and tithing came before the Mosaic law, both were done by the father of faith, both were made of promise, and neither are necessarily evil to continue to practice personally. The only difference is that the NT directly states that circumcision is not required. So really your only basis of an argument can only be made on the absence of a New Covenant repeal of tithing.
You greatly disrespect the analogy of first fruits if you wish to correlate tithing with it. Jesus was the first fruit- he was the first and the best. Our Savior was not a tithe or a tenth of God’s possessions. The tithe was not the first, nor the best Leviticus 27:33.
if giving a tenth of our increase is a transverse concept, then you would see this pattern to be consistent throughout any of the testaments. I’m not looking for a consistent pattern on who the tithe went to, who gave the tithe, when they gave the tithe. I just want you to tell me if even giving 10% is consistent?
1. Only Israelite farmers & herdsmen tithed off their increase, while others such as doctors, lawyers, bankers, and carpenters did NOT tithe at all from their occupational increase. (Leviticus 27)
2. Israel’s tithe was given only from their animals or agriculture (Leviticus 27), while Abraham’s tithe was NOT taken from his personal wealth but only from the spoils of war. (Hebrews 7:4)
3. There were times when giving from increase was less than 1% (Num. 31:9, 27-29), and other times it was 10% (Genesis 14:20, Hebrews 7:4)
4. At one point tithing was voluntary (Genesis 28:22), and then at another time it is mandatory (Leviticus 27).
To summarize the four points: (1)-Doctors and lawyers gave 0% towards the tithe from their occupational income. (2)-Abraham gave 0% of his own possessions. (3)-Israel gave less than 1% of their increase from the spoils. (4)-tithing is not even necessary.
We can see that giving to God’s work is a transverse concept. We can see that taking care of the ministers is a transverse concept. We can see that ‘giving’ is a transverse concept. We can even see that justice, mercy, and faith is a transverse concept. But with those examples above, can you lie to me and say that giving 10% from our increase is a universal concept?
My goal is not to stop anyone from giving, or to stop anyone from creating personal standards. I feel that we are to give sacrificially, and cheerfully as we feel the Holy Spirit is leading us to give.
.-= steward´s last blog ..Bible Verses on Spirit Led Giving =-.
I can tell you that this is not something you see discussed on a jewish social networking site too often.
Most people become confused regarding tithing. It did not start with Moses and codified in the Law. It started with Abraham, an act of faith, and an act of worship. It is the same today, if properly taught, tithing is not paying 10% or even giving 10%. Tithing is an act of worship, patterned after the example of Abraham as an act of faith. If faith and worship is not the primary motivation for tithing, then religious compliance is. Faith and worship will give life to your giving, religious compliance will create bondage.
My little brother is dead because
people in the church didn’t tithe
(our extreme poverty drove him
to death).
(Our dad is a pastor – still is, but
before you judge him, please read
on.)
We’ve been in churches with 250
people, and still couldn’t pay our
bills, and a few of the members
were even multi-millionaires.
For years church boards, greedy
members, and selfish people from
every background had their way
with our family. (My parents are
working themselves to an early
grave right now, but they believe
in doing the Lord’s work even if it
kills them.)
I guess that’s why they call it the
church of Laodicea – even George
Barna has his head on backwards.
Luckily my little brother is in Heaven
now, or I’d be pretty angry (and I
am a bit)…
But remember this …
- Most People DON’T Tithe
- The few that do, don’t tithe much
- I don’t know the figure, but probably
about 0.01 percent of the population
actually gives 10% or more
- About 10% give on rare occasions -
this is not tithing (the word ‘tithe’ means
10% all the time)
- About 3% give regularly, but very little
- And, as mentioned above, only about
0.001 actually give 10% or more – this
is an old figure – it’s even lower now
A message for the wicked who do not
tithe, and teach others to do the same…
Think of all the dead people, like my
little brother, you have hurt with your
message from the Devil …
Imagine the multitudes of souls in Hell
crying out your name, because you
decided to have another case of beer,
buy another house, car, you name it
- instead of using your money to save
souls, and teach people God’s ways.
Look, I understand if you’re broke. Yes,
we’re under Grace. But even 1% would
be better than nothing at all.
My message is really for those making
$100,000/year+ – You can afford to tithe,
why don’t you?
I am in one of those un-sympathetic moods at the moment, so you’ll have to pardon my frankness. I could never imagine losing a brother, or any sibling. . . but that doesn’t disqualify me from saying what i’m about to say.
I know you are aware there is evil out there, but that evil is never to blame for our circumstances. Greedy people are not to blame for the death of your brother. As a father, i can say that if a ministry was not capable of providing for my child, i would either quit, and get a job; or go back to school to get a career to get a job that pays well enough to take care of my child, or i would get a second job on top of the ministry. You need to take a good lesson from this, when you become/are a parent, you need to realize that NO ministry is more important than providing for my child.
- jared
I think the problem that everyone seems to have here is this fundamental belief that Christ’s arrival on the scene and his work was an effort to eliminate the Law or practices of the OT. There is a lot of debate in this blog, but not a lot of scripture. Let me share a couple of verses. I know there are a few, but bear with me.
Matt. 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matt. 8:3-4 Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don’t tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”
Matt. 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
Gal. 4:4-5 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.
Mark 12:17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him.
Heb. 4:4-10 Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, their brothers—even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
There are a few things that are at debate here. The first is whether or not tithing is an OT law or faith practice. I will share that my biased is that the act of tithing is in fact an OT command. My belief on that comes from the Matt 22 passage (above) where Christ address the Pharisees neglect the laws of justice mercy and faith and then lumps the act of giving, which the Pharisees did not neglect as part of the law. He proceeds to scold them saying that NONE of these should have been neglected.
In fact, when Christ heals the leper in Matt 8 (above), he gives instructions that COINCIDE with the law, not instructions contrary.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law of the OT as stated in Matt 5. His work was to fulfill the law by bringing redemption. We failed, and miserably so, at maintaining the law which God established which was not intended to separate us but rather allow us to have relationship with a perfect God. Our sin which was our disobedience, caused that separation symbolized by the veil which was torn at Christ’s crucifixion.
In addition, Jesus also says in Mark 12, that we are to give that which is Caesar’s to Caesar and that which is God’s to God. The story of the widow and mite is a perfect example of the woman rendering that, which is God’s to God. She gives all that she has, her last mite that not only represents her finances, but her life as an act of full surrender. The NT church understood this. In Acts 4:34 they sell all that they had and surrendered everything at the apostles feet and the apostles then redistributed to anyone as they had need.
If anything, we need to look at tithing in a different way: a minimum standard. If we refer back to the Mark 12 passage, as well as look at the Heb 4 is not sufficient. The Heb. passage suggests to us the changing of a guard so to speak when it comes to the priesthood, both in the OT and the NT with Christ becoming the new priest. And under this change, we are asked to do more. Christ and The Sermon of the Mount steps everything up a notch. Rather than just committing the act, the thought alone is the cause of the sin. Grace does not become an excuse for disobedience, but rather a motivation to do right.
With that being said, this is my belief. 10% is the minimum for giving. Christ has called us to much more. I agree with Stephen that we should give as much as possible. At the same time, if the church is not meeting its responsibilities of taking care of the poor and widows, then you should not support the ministry financially, but rather find one that does.
My concern here is that this blog sounds much like the Pharisees of the OT, trying to find loopholes in the law so they can practice disobedience. “Who is my neighbor?”
Chris Mo,
I just wrote a new blog post in response to a portion of your comment. Click on the link below.
- jarec
.-= steward´s last blog ..Did Jesus Fulfill the Law? =-.
Well, regarding tithing and giving, its not wrong and its not right! let me explain!!!
Before the old testament, people boasted that they could be right with God by doing good works, so he brought the law to show them that it was impossible for them to be right with him by works alone, they failed miserably.every dictate that time was to be done whether u liked it or not, how u felt about what u were doing did not matter, that is why this fellow who touched the Ark of the covenenant as it tilted to fall (being brought from Phillistine) was killed on the spot. his intention was good, but they were not living under the law of intentions. it dint matter what your heart was about the issue, the law was the law.
Now TITHING like any other command was to be carried out whether u loved it or not, it was ther benchmark for God’s release of his blessings. yout heart in the matter did not matter at all.
Right now, we under a new law, a new arrangement, a law of intentions, a law of heart, a law of LOVE. your heart in the matter matters a LOT. you have to love the church, then you will be induced properly to give, you will not hold internal debates about how much to give, because love will tell ypu how much to give.
the problem nowdays is that people follow the right law about giving but with the weong heart they give not because they love the chruch, but because thery see is as some kind of investment, there is compeletely little or no heart in it. now that would have worked in the O.T but this is a new arrangement. that is why God loves a cheerful giver in the N.T and things like give as your heart moves you.. God is just so into hearts not amounts.
Get into ther word of God,gain love for God and the chuch, the others will just fall into place.
Basically I agree with your bits from Barna.
It’s poor though to say it was a Jewish thing: it was an Israelite things, of which the Jews – later so-named – were but a part.
It’s arguably an insult to God (like being as a matter of course physically circumcised thus denying the spirit of grace) since the Sinaitic Covenant ended. Those in the Yeshuic Covenant are stewards of all they have & are, sowing finance according to principles such as love, faith, wisdom, generosity. And they should rejoice in the grace of giving.
Even the hybrid system of tithe as foundational, then ‘giving’, confuses the covenant relationship.
Whether one channels money for good causes via their church or not, such money should be invested where really needed. Local churches & networks ought not to be parochial with finance but act, as should individuals, as stewards under God.
The word of God is very clear about the giving of our finances (first-fruits) to the Lord. I hear many comments concerning giving as under the law but Biblical giving was first introduced by father Abraham in Genesis 14, centuries before the law was established and again by Jacob in Genesis 28. We are either going to give to God or we are not, period. My hopes are that in the process of our personal choices which ultimately stem from a personal relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ, that we do not hinder or stifle others from doing what is right in the sight of God. We will all stand before God someday whether in the great white throne Judgment or before the judgment seat of Christ, with that in mind we should be very careful about slinging our opinions. Instead let us demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit Galatians (5:22,23) even in what we say!!! IN CHRIST
Billy giving money to Jesus is the issue. Jesus taught us to love and to give. Billy I have many Questions in this long post please anwser some if you have time. Most preachers expecting a tithe have not explained thier system to believers who are all priest. I believe tithing in the Church of Jesus is a tradition which is complicated. I think traditions have made things more complicated than simple loving and giving where the spirit leads. Our traditions make some entitled preacher Christian Priest collectors of money and other burdened Priest the payers of 10 percent of their money. Did the New Testament argue for such a system?
Please explain where in the New Testament how those with Athority collect and those with less Athority are to give. In the New Testament the last are first and the first are last. The leaders should give the most and expect the least. I believe the Body of Christ is free to love and spend their money everywhere the Spirit of Jesus leads them. This cheerful giving is free giving by Christian Priest. I do not believe that Jesus tells us to give a percentage of our money to any certain place like most evangelical professional preachers in the US. Christians should give to Christians and non Christians who are in need. I think Jesus simply told us all to give where the Spirit leads. Billy and money tithe believing friends, do you have a more strict opinion of giving? Paul explained Let everyone set in their hearts what they should give for God loves a cheerful giver.
Billy what do you mean when you say giving to the Lord. Every Christians has a lot of responsibilities that Jesus has given them. Christians must pay their Bills, witness to their neighbors, support Christian friends, take care of their elderly parents, and give Christian education to themselves and their families. Can Christians get Christian Counseling and call it Christian giving in your opinion Billy and all who believe in Christian money tithing? So where can Christian 10% money tithe go and where can’t a Christian money tithe go in your opinion? Are only some ministries worthy of Christian tithes. If you answer friend please use scriptures. Now think in the scriptures about the simple message of giving to those in need. Are Christians wrong to simply give where the Spirit of Jesus leads.
If I give to a missionary am I giving to Jesus? If I buy a bible, Christian book, music or film is I giving to Jesus. Do you believe only some people have the Athority to decide how Christian money is spent? Please Explain Christian money tithing when all Christians are preist? Is Church tithing a complicated tradition? Loving and giving to everyone is what the Bible teaches so why argue for a complicated system from the Old testement? Who can collect tithes now and who must pay or can everyone collect and pay?
Jesus taught Believers to give to the poor and the Disciples never wrote in the New Testament that we should money tithe 10% of our cash as most Protestant preachers in America Teach. I think even if one were to accept that ten percent of Christian cash should go somewhere where should it go? The Church is people not a location. Friend Billy If money tithing is commandments for Christians Where should the money go? Most American evangelical preachers answer that the money should be controlled by the professional leaders of the local Church. What do you think?
Billy do you believe that all Christians are Priest? Priest under the Law of Moses collected food tithes from the Levites. Who can pay tithes today and who can collect tithes today? Is giving money to missionaries a proper use of Christian money which can be a tithe? What about sending ones kids to Christian School or colleges? Please answer friends who can explain how a system of Christian 10% money tithing also helps Christian priest to set in their hearts what to give. Priest should direct 100% of their money and efforts to things that Jesus wants. Why let traditions complicate loving and giving?
Christ in US makes us all Priest with a ministry to everyone!
Tithing was introduced before the law. All the explaining away wont change the facts that our great patriarchs of the faith demonstrated.Matthew 23:23 Woe to you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! YOU GIVE A TENTH of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, WITHOUT NEGLECTING THE FORMER. it is clear that Jesus wasn’t doing away with anything here, he was reinforcing it.
Why try to explain why you want to give your way? With Gods help I will continue to give as the Lord leads (his way) Witch is usually more than a tenth. Grace through faith requires action in all areas of our life, Not to be saved but because we are saved :)
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
I dare you tithe propagandist to read and try to understand Acts 13:39
Also stop saying Matthew 23:23 supports tithing, this addressing Jews before Jesus paid in full works on the Cross!
Acts 13
Verse 39
“Through him (JESUS) everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
Actually, since it seems like excuses not to give are really the subject here. Why argue or try to prove a point that really is a matter of the heart. 2 Corinthians 9:7 defines our perspective on giving and it should define yours also. Jesus talked about surpassing what the law commanded, in our actions in helping others, ect…… we see the early church selling property and giving their possessions as the church and others had need. So I guess your right, we have a higher standard as the body of Christ concerning giving, we should be giving more than what was required by the law. I am thankful to God that I am coming to realize that all that I have belongs to God, that is much more than a measly 10%. Let us be obedient in everything and stop trying to cause dissension and confusion as if giving to God has ceased under the dispensation of grace.
Billy,
I have nothing against anyone using the tithe as a starting point for the personal goals. I think it is commendable. Although, I don’t believe it is a universal principle, or a standard that is relevant to even a majority of people. Only the farmers and herdsmen were required to tithe off their occupational income. Regardless of it being an agrarian society, farming and herding is still only a small portion of the commercial earnings in the old testament. There were bankers, doctors, lawyers, carpenters, tax-men, government, potters, blacksmiths, tent makers, weavers . . . who did not tithe on their occupational income.
I’m not bringing that up to persuade others to give as little as they can; i’m just trying to persuade people in understanding how irrelevant the tithe was even for a majority of Israel.
A question to ask yourself is where was the starting point for a carpenter’s income in Israel? Besides the different offerings a carpenter was required to give, there was no indication for a minimum amount of giving. So, it would seem bizarre for a group of people under grace, a new covenant, and a spiritual helper to institute a standard that appeared before the law, but was NOT universally applied during the law; and now all of a sudden is universally binding today. See the flip-flop?
I’m just trying to break people free from the focus of tithing as well. You can tell a man in bondage that there is a wonderful world outside his cell, or you can unlock the chains for him.
Love of money is the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10)
exchange the tithe for money, take the money & go to a place where the LORD you GOD chooses, spend that money for whatever heart desires, whatever you and your household.
(Deuteronomy 14:22-26)
in Malachi 3:1-18, was God’s message for all future believers or for a rebellious nation of Jews at that moment in time?
the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) where was the Priest and Levite going in such a hurry that they could not stop to render aid to their fellow Jewish brother, perhaps to give or receive their portion of tithes
Acts 15:1-29 The Jerusalem Decree
1 Corinthians 9:18 “what is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.”
2 Timothy 2:15 ” Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:1-5 ( Difficult times for Christian service)
Hebrews 7:1-18 ( Annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness)
Proverbs 22:16 “He who oppresses the poor to increase his riches AND he who gives to the rich, will surely come to poverty
Love GOD and love others, you can’t pay or work your way into heaven. ( Matthew 7:21-23)
as always stay in prayer , in JESUS name amen!!
Tithes are part of the law (which goes unfulfilled in some part, in each of our lives).
Tithes are right and tithing does not earn anything.
I dont circumcise.
I dont stone disobedient children.
I eat shrimp.
The law has not passed away.
I do not try to keep the law.
I cant.
I don’t have to.
Gal 5:6 (ESV) 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
But I try to do what I am able to, in order to help make disciples.
Giving is gift I enjoy; a gift i employ; to fulfill a crucial role in the body of Christ.
We provide resources out of what God has given us.
10 percent is a good example (that I am not required to give) from the Law.
The law served as a tutor till Christ came.
Christ came to redeem me and i am dead to the world.
ALL I have is Christ’s.
And I use part, of all, to feed the minister, pay for electric at the worship shelter, and minister to the poor and the sick and the needy.
I give more than 10% and have never lacked.
I am a minister and I understand that ‘priests’ didnt tithe.
but i also own a house too (because this church cant provide a home)
and they pay us to persue every opportunity to advance the gospel instead of teach math or clean houses or lay bricks.
and I still work in the community with my hands so folks respect the preacher.
So keep the useful fires burning and give, give, give.
Not because the law says so,
because your heart compels you!
Just give all your resources to promote the good news:
that God loves; that Satan hates; and that Jesus saves!
feed your children, feed the flock, feed the poor.
give generously;
crazy give! like, absurdly give; and laugh at what you let go.
give-it-away, give-it-away, give-it-away now…
“Tithe” is not a christian vocabulary word.
Give freely as you freely receive everything.
Free up the resources of God’s family by investing in ministry that works.
Some churches will die (but they wont be missed!)
end of rant…
Amen to that Brother!!! Let the message continue to proclaim that truly Jesus has set the captive free. Now we are free to give above and beyond the tithe. I don’t give unto the Lord to be saved, I give unto the Lord because I am Saved.
Surely you read Malachi 3:10 or you are just tithing because you are just a nice guy or maybe you are intrested in the harvest of financial reward. When did christians or pastors decide to change Gods instructions he gave Moses? Jesus when he was here did not change the law of tithing because he mentioned the tithe of food that the pharasies were paying and also commented that tithing was in the law of Moses. Mathew 23:23
Many forget that Jesus was a Jew, he knew that the tithe was paid to the Levites after they receive it then they gave the food from the tithes to the high priest who ministered at the Temple. Deteuronomy 14:22-29
If Jesus received or asked for tithes he would have sinned but he didnt because the bible teaches that he sent one of the lepers he healed to show himself to the high priest.Jesus knew the Mosiac Law that only Levites and High priests were permitted by God to receive tithes and offerings for the Temple. The pharasies that were following Jesus to try and bring an accusation against him for breaking the the Mosiac law did not have an accusation against Jesus.
If Jesus sinned he would have not been able to die for our sins.
Acts 13:39-”and through Him (Jesus) everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the law of Moses.
Galatians 3:10 ” All who rely on observing the law (for justification from God) are under a curse, for it is written “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law”
Galatians 3:11 “So it is clean that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, ‘It is through faith that a righteous person has life”
James 2:10 ” For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking them all”
Romans 8:32 “Since God did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all surely he will with him (Jesus) F-R-E-E-L-Y give us all things.
Jesus was the only one who could keep the whole law and our position in him is what gives us favor and right-standing with God. If people add anything to his work of Grace it is evident that they do not have any revelation of Grace or what he paid for on the Cross.
Galatians 3:11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law,
The Holy Spirit resides in us to help us and guide us. Therefore, we have an advantage over the Old Testament Covenant. They had external laws to keep them in line. We have the inner witness of the Holy Spirit because Jesus sent him to us.
Many people look for loop holes and reasons not to give. If you have a problem giving to further the kingdom of god here on earth, don’t give. You wont have to answer to anyone but God!!! Please stop trying to justify why you don’t give, because your not convincing me or any other committed man of God. We have a higher standard as believers, just look at the early believers in acts. They gave more than just a tenth, and I do not see early believers justifying why they didn’t give.
Many people like yourself have been psychologically indoctrinated about this giving and building the Kingdom of God..Well let me tell you if you want to think like that you go for it. I personally believe that you are coming out of the Flesh with this rubbish and what a load of Poppycock that we are going to answer to God about not filling some pastors pocket with our hard earned cash, because of guilt! When you used Acts to support your theory about the believers giving all they had…Keep it in context to what it’s saying..were they not under persecution at the time????You don’t understand, I personally believe in being generous as in having mercy on others, giving without anybody noticing as the bible says, Sharing and caring for others..In what you say it sounds like too harsh and judgemental?In fact it sounds very self-righteous, as if your better than others cause you hand over your money and Advertise it. I should add that you’re a giver?? How about that what you’re advertising is that God’s Kingdom will not go further (Where is this mentioned in the bible???) unless man gives cash to cause it to grow??God does not need cash at all…what he wants is for us to go out with nothing but the Gospel and share it with those that have not heard it…Lets get back to the basics, it’s by his Spirit says the Lord not by some pastors Fat bank account??? Jesus told the young rich ruler to give away all his wealth meaning cash i suppose to whom?? The poor not the Church at the time??? he didn’t say give all your cash to me and all the Apostles so that the money can further the kingdom of God..I have to say you only speak out of the Doctrine you know, I am certain that you are sincere in your heart but Gods bigger than that and I’m sure what ever the Scriptures and Prophesies say it will come to pass regardless of how much cash you give? May God bless you and keep you safe in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
Do not compare your giving to people you do not know.Christians who give to the lord do not brag about it or parade their giving. Try humility it will give you rest from trying so hard to be rich. Some people give 5% and its more money you will ever see in your whole life.
Relax you do not have to bribe God to bless you financialy just have faith in Christ and rest in his finished work.
Maybe you read and replied to someone Else’s reply. Here it is again “Many people look for loop holes and reasons not to give. If you have a problem giving to further the kingdom of god here on earth, don’t give. You wont have to answer to anyone but God!!! Please stop trying to justify why you don’t give, because your not convincing me or any other committed man of God. We have a higher standard as believers, just look at the early believers in acts. They gave more than just a tenth, and I do not see early believers justifying why they didn’t give”. I don’t see any comparing or bribing. What I see is obedience in giving!!! Please say what you will, but don’t put words in my mouth.
Billy,
who said they are not giving?
- jared
Try reading the bible for a change, that will help you rather than being spoon fed by those who lie and manipulate the scriptures to line their pockets and call it Gods will.
Read Hebrews 8:4 but then again why try and free a slave when they want to pay for their own freedom.
I think you should read the Bible throughout. It seems that you are confused on what grace and mercy really mean. It sure is not a license to do what you want. why are you still trying to convince me? I know what the word says and what it doesn’t say. Just bury your money or use it to gratify your desires. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord in all that we have. It all belongs to God anyway or haven’t you figured that out yet?
Giving in your own strength or twist and lie about scripture to raise money for a pastor or a building program is not giving to God. Madoff in America con people for 140 billon dollars its the same as using scripture to con and lie to get money in church. All the pastors have to do is ask their churches for financial support because God still speaks to his people to give their money. Pastors do not have to lie and use the Mosiac law to raise money. I gave so much money to the local church that the pastor tried to get me in to be one of the elders of the church.
I guess you will never understand where I am coming from unless you have a lot of money.
I am all for giving to support Gods work but if someone uses the tithe to try to con peoples money and not use faith that really annoys me.
God does not want any pastor or teacher to lie and twist scripture to raise funds for him.
Its the same as dealing drugs or running a brothel to support the church.
Reminds me of Jesus and the rich young ruler. Your money means absolutely nothing to me. We are not judged according to what we have or don’t have.Its a matter of stewardship, the more we have the more we will have to give account for. I personally attend a Church that “teaches the Bible”. The Pastor of our church is bi-vocational pastor (he has a full time job and a full time ministry serving the Lord). As a matter of fact he chooses not to know what people give.
His view is that our giving is between us and God. He looks at people not based on what they give or don’t give but on the fact that they need Jesus and they need to be obedient to His Word.
We need to understand what 2 Cor. chapter 13 teaches and how it is the heartbeat of God. I give according to my personal convictions and my understanding of the Bible.
I am about fulfilling the great commission found in Matt. 28. This is what is important to me. Blessings
Billy, Why would you assume that anyone wants a license to do whatever they want?
- jared
Joel I respect people like you who have had a first hand experience with these so called Men of God, you encouraged me when I read your reply, thankyou.
I agree with you, we should be witnessing people giving and sharing with others, however nowadays all I have personally witnessed is these cons trying to convince honest sincere hearted people to give towards their own ambitions ha, as if God needs them to build bigger buildings?Is this all about showing that they’re a success??I think so.
Just recently my son has made a decision to no longer attend the Youth group in which he has been involved with for a number of years, the reasons for this decision are that he felt burnt out and disappointed. I had called his leader for a chat and now I am clear on what had happened and why my son based his decision on…This leader is young and ambitious, he made a couple of comment in which sounded warning bells to me..first he told me that they love their pastor and he comes first?I responded with but i thought we as Christians should put God first??That’s the first Commandment?He went on to say that if someone does not agree with their Model or maybe plan then maybe they shouldn’t be part of their congregation? My son questioned in confidence regarding Tithing and also the pastors plan for extending the building and that everyone should financially support his idea? These people make me sick, if you question them anything to do with their personal agenda then they fire up and label you to be some sort of Demon possessed trouble maker and quickly make things hard for you. This pastor not only runs this particular congregation he also runs 2 others, there is plenty of other pastors in this church however he wants to control it all? Anyhow my point is that these people totally support Tithing and Guilt tripping everyone into giving them financial support because it supports their agendas…They have a bible college in which they go out of their way to try and get kids who are not yet finished secondary school to go to Bible college before doing or thinking about anything else?? Mind you these kids have to cough up $12,000 for the cost?Who’s going to foot this bill, oh that’s right the caring parents, what a joke and plenty of people do it and at the end they end up jobless and with situations of having Pastors in their Church who want to do it all themselves..Please excuse me spelling etc but I am discouraged with all these deceptions, money making schemes and people actually supporting Tithing when in fact it’s not for new Christians???They even go to the point of saying at church now that “If you don’t have cash on you we take CREDIT CARDS”, oh and also we have an eftpos facilities?????????? This makes me sick..I bet somebody who supports this will come out with the usual..We when you go to Mac Donalds don’t you use your eftpos or Credit card…hahah yeah ok, lets do what the World does and run the Church like that..You freaks are nothing but worldly who support this Tithing and Bless debting to God.
Please spare me the drama. Please Just keep your money