Some Nagging Thoughts in my Mind

July 14th, 2010

- Giving to the poor
The concept to support the poor through offerings is reiterated in the New Covenant, so why wouldn’t tithing be reiterated to support the spread of the gospel even just once?

- In regards to tithing and the New Testament:
The number one problem i had when i once believed in the tithing mandate was that all i could see was the consistency and repetitiveness of tithing. I could not see the other inconsistent, and incompatible errors it has under the new covenant. Anyone can see the similarities of any screwdriver and any screw, but it’s inconsistencies that will tell you whether or not a screw driver will fit the screw.

- To those who hate when I condemn prosperity preachers and their self serving ministries:
“God put this religious system here. But when the nation became so sinful, He sent the Babylonains in and they destroyed the very system which he had setup.” – Jim Gables, Vineland Park Baptist Church

- In regards to former multi-millionaire Mark Brunnel’s bankruptcy:
Why are people allowed to tithe while in bankruptcy proceedings?

- Why require Tithing and not Circumcision?:
Circumcision does not raise money. 1 Timothy 6:10

- Tithing and Debt:
I forget which is right and which is wrong – to tithe while in debt, or to gain debt while tithing?

- Tithing Money, Food, & Corruption
It’s important to note the reasons why the tithe was only food in the bible. It’s hard to hoard food when you can only eat so much of it. It’s quite the opposite with money . . . it seems you never have enough.

- Tithing to your neighbor
If i told you to tithe to your neighbor, what would your giving look like? But if i told you to love your neighbor as yourself, now what would your giving look like?

Pros and Cons: Tithing v. Spirit Led Giving

June 22nd, 2010

1. Punishments

  • Tithing
    Malachi 3:9
    You are cursed with a curse
  • Spirit led giving
    Acts 5:1-10
    But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
    But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

    Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried [him] out, and buried [him].

    Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.

    And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?”

    She said, “Yes, for so much.”

    Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband [are] at the door, and they will carry you out.”

    Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying [her] out, buried [her] by her husband.

  • WINNER: Spirit Led Giving

2. Rewards

  • Tithing
    Malachi 3:10
    And try Me now in this,” Says the LORD of hosts, “If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you [such] blessing That [there will] not [be room] enough [to receive it].
  • Spirit led giving
    2 Corinthians 9:8
    And God [is] able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all [things], may have an abundance for every good work.
  • WINNER: TIE

3. Effectiveness

  • Tithing
    Deuteronomy 14:29
    And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who [are] within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.
  • Spirit led giving
    Acts 4:34
    Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold,
  • WINNER: Spirit Led Giving

4. Cheerfulness

  • Tithing
    Matthew 23:23
    Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier [matters] of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
  • Spirit Led Giving
    2 Corinthians 9:7
    [So let] each one [give] as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
  • WINNER: Spirit Led Giving

5. New Covenant Commands

Tithing
. . .    . . .     . . .

Spirit Led Giving
Romans 12:6-8
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, [let us use them]: if prophecy, [let us] [prophesy] in proportion to our faith; or ministry, [let us use it] in [our] ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality;

WINNER: Spirit Led Giving

Honk if you Love Jesus

June 21st, 2010

Yeah. i know something off the cuff, but i thought it was good enough to post.

honk if you love jesus text while driving

Walk a Mile in These Shoes

June 15th, 2010

I felt it good to post a comment from a past blog and then write my response here.

Mac says:
06/15/2010

Wow, spoken out of true ignorance. Churches are not perfect, they are run by human beings, but i have seen … alot more good and grace and mercy come through the church than our government. Here’s food for thought for you all. You think preachers have it made? Well consider this. Because a church is tax exempt they do not pay income or social security taxes on preachers. That means it is the preacher’s responsibility to pay both the employer’s portion and their own portion. Also unlike you desk jockeys, a church does not pay into preacher’s social security so if a preacher becomes disabled they are pretty much screwed. Add on top of that the fact that many churches do not provide benefits, like health insurance, etc. Churches get no government assistance whatsoever, that means they are totally dependent on … you to give donations to pay their bills and pay the pastor, etc. But since you are more concerned with buying a Starbucks latte or an apple Ipad than supporting your local church, alot of churches have to shut their doors. Until you have walked a mile in someone’s shoes don’t assume you know anything at all. I hope you read this article author man, you make me completely sick.

Mac,
I am a self employed individual. Every day i wake up wondering why my next paycheck is going to come from. I wonder if God will provide me some business today, and on top of that worry about my competition (unlike a church). If i were to be disabled in any way, probably the only job i could get is at a church. I started my business with no income or contracts, with no customer base or initial converts.

I do not have a health, nor retirement plan. I pay full state and federal taxes on my sales and income (unlike a church), and also have to pay for social security for myself and as an employer.

Most of the people in my situation do not have the opportunity to plead at the pulpit for more support (unlike a pastor). If i need some sort of assistance, my church fellowship might provide some temporary relief, but in the end i have to get off my ass and find a job and work like the rest of the world. It’s an enlightening opportunity to actually be a full time servant of God amongst the rest of the world.

My wife and I own 2 cars over 10 years old, and have worked hard to pay them off. I have a silverado loaded with nothing(nope not even power windows), and a toyota camry with over 190,000 miles (praying that it will go to at least 250,000). I have a 32? old school box TV, and i do not pay for cable. I have 1000 sq ft home with 1 child now and 1 on the way.

I have worked for a church doing administrative work for about a year, and was let go because of budget cuts.

I say all this not for a pat on the back or some applause, because it really is not as hard as you or I make it sound. Mac, i’ve walked miles in these shoes. Did i blame my clients because they didn’t choose my services? Did i blame God during the hard times because i was frustrated? Did i get mad at people in the Church for not giving?

All-in-all Mac, i think you just need to calm down. I’ve never seen a man of God without his needs taken care of. Regardless if you are a pastor or you squeegee sewage all day; the common denominator it all boils down to with everyone is something called faith

I couldn’t agree more with your statement about the church and government. The church is where grace should be coming from. Instead most churches are willing to pass the torch off to our government. It’s ludicrous to watch the pulpit being used to make social demands from the government. It’s also bizarre to me that people expect to see Jesus more from our government than from our Church – just look at hurricane katrina.

There’s only one way to stop the insanity, and that’s to purify the church of greed and corruption. We’re not going to stop all this mess at the polls or at the next tea party rally. Political rally’s are just band-aids on gunshot wounds. It has to come from God’s people and within the family of God.

I do not apologize if the blog article offended you or if it seemed too radical. Once again, i didn’t write my experiences to play my trumpet. I could care less about what people think.

Malachi 3:3-4
He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem Will be pleasant to the LORD, As in the days of old, As in former years.

-  jared, author of the blog

Tithing Opponents Throughout History

June 5th, 2010

I came across this information at http://russkellyphd.blogspot.com/. I haven’t verified all of this information, but this is a very extensive and powerful list of historical opponents of tithing.

Tithing opponents throughout the years as compiled by Dr. David Croteau, Liberty University, You Mean I Don’t Have to Tithe?, p271-292. www.slaveoftheword.blogspot.com/ See Footnotes for transcript evidence.

Clement of Rome 100
Didache 100
Justin Martyr 165
Tertullian 230
Origen 255
Cyprian 258
Waldenses 1150+-
Thomas Aquinas 1275
John Wycliff 1384
John Huss 1415
German Peasants 1520
Anabaptists 1525
Erasmus 1536
Otto Brumfels 1534
Martin Luther 1546
Philip Melanchthon 1560
Separatists Amsterdam 1603
John Smythe 1609 Baptist
John Robinson 1610
English Parliament 1650+-
Puritans & Plgrims Mass 1650+-
John Cotton 1652 Puritan
Roger Williams 1636 Baptist
Little Parliament 1653
Oliver Cromwell 1658
John Milton 1658 Puritan
Particular Baptists 1660
John Owen 1680 Baptist
Francis Turretin 1687
John Bunyan 1688 Baptist
Quakers 1768
John Gill 1771 Baptist
John Wesley 1791 (my site)
BAPTISTS IN AMERICA 1800s
Adam Clarke 1832 Baptist
Charles Buck 1833
J C Philpot 1835 Baptist
Charles H Spurgeon 1832 Baptist
Parsons Cooke 1850
Samuel Harris 1850
Edward A Lawrence 1850
John Peter Lange 1876
Henry William Clark 1891 Engllish
S H Kellogg 1891
G Campbell Morgan 1898 Congregational
Albert Vail 1913 Baptist
Frank Fox 1913
David MaConaughy 11918 Episcopal
William Pettingill 1932
John Harvey Grime 1934 Baptist
John T Mueller 1934 Lutheran
H E Dana 1937 Bapt Historian
R C H LENSKI 1946 Lutheran
Lewis Sperry Chafer 1948 DTS Foundeer
W E Vine 1949
James F Rand 1953
Francis Pieper 1953 Lutheran
Ray Stedman 1951
L L McR 1955 Catholic
Paul Leonard Stagg 1958 Baptist
Hiley H Ward 1958 Baptist
Roy T Cowles 1958
Elizabeth P Tilton 1958
R C Rein 1958 Lutheran
Robert A Baker 1959 Bapt Historian
Wick Bromall 1960
John Byron Evans 1960
Norman Tenpas 1967
James Edward Anderson 1967
Alfred Martin 1968
CHARLES C RYRIE 1969 DTS
Jerry Horner 1972 S Baptist
Pieter Verhoef 1974
Dennis Wretlind 1975
Jack J Peterson 1978 Pres
Donald Kraybill 1978
Jon Zens 1979 Baptist
Richard Cunningham 1979 S Bapt
Gary Frieson 1980
JOHN MACARTHUR 1982-2000
Paul Fink 1982
George Monroe Castillo 1982
Tony Badillo 1984
James M Boice 1986
Michael E Oliver 1986 Rest
W Clyde Tilley 1987
Scott Collier 1987
Ronald M Campbell 1987
R E O White 1988
William McDonald 1989
Charles Swindoll 1990 Dallas Seminary
Rhodes Thompson 1990
J VERNON MCGEE 1999
Jerome Smith 1992
CRAIG BLOMBERG 1993 Denver Seminary
J Duncan M Derrett 1993
Walter Kaiser Jr 1994 Gordon-Cromwell
Moises Silva 1994
Benny D Prince 1995
Brian K Morley 1996
Linda L Belleville 1996
Ron Rhodes 1997
Ernest L Martin 1997
Michael Webb 1998
R Johnston 1999
Mark Snoeberger 2000 Baptist
Stuart Murray 2000 Eng
George W Greene 2000
Old Line Primitive Baptists 2000
Jaime Cardinal Sin 2000 Cath Archbishop
RUSSELL EARL KELLY 2001 Baptist
Jonathan Kitchcart 2001
Frank Viola 2002
George Barna 2002
Michael Morrison 2002
Elliott Miller 2003
Matthew Narramore 2004
David Alan Black 2004 Baptist SEBTS
Andreas Kostenberger 2007 Baptist SEBTS
Danny Akin 2007 Baptist SEBTS
Mark Driscoll 2008
Roman Catholic Church
Jehovah’s Witnesses
New Worldwide Church of God

Tithing Sermons – Should or Shouldn’t?

June 1st, 2010

  1. Why you should: Your Church is broke.
    Why you shouldn’t: Your church will be more broke
    I understand that the utilities, rent, and honorable salaries need to be paid. But we need to learn to cut expenses. The “American Greed Dream” can’t creep into homes without it creeping into the Church.
  2. Why you should: Your pastor wants a new car
    Why you shouldn’t: Someone else needs a car more
    A little perspective goes a long way. Look at how others poorer than you live their lives and try to imagine your attitude under their circumstances. Determine your wants vs. needs.
  3. Why you should: Your Church wants a coffee shop
    Why you shouldn’t: Your coffee shop is only open 1 day a week
    A majority of Church buildings are largely under-utilized so let’s get smart about what were spending our money on.
  4. Why you should: You want a new building
    Why you shouldn’t: Can i remind you that were in a recession?
    I’m not saying that great sacrifices can’t be done during hard times, but let’s not forget that a recession means 10% unemployment, higher taxes, forecloses, and salary cuts. Let’s not forget that your biggest need might be to expand your walls, but, someone’s biggest need this week may be what they are going to give their kids for dinner. Once again, a little perspective.
  5. Why you should: You want to buy new drum set for the band
    Why you shouldn’t: Bongo’s are soooo much cheaper!
    This may be just my pet peeve, but I’m kind of getting tired of seeing 5 guitar players and a drummer on stage. Can’t anyone play anything else?
  6. Why you should: You want people to be blessed
    Why you shouldn’t:
    People will be cursed instead
    I’ve said it once, I’ve said it twice. . . Shoot! . . . I don’t know how many times I’ve said it, but tithing is an Old Testament law.
    Galatians 3:10 – “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse
  7. Why you should: It’s Stewardship month
    Why you shouldn’t: Why spend time talking about 10% of our money?
    Am i missing something here, or is there a reason why churches are concerned about the 10% that they get from you and spend very little time advising you on the other 90% that they aren’t getting from you? I’m wondering if they take the time to advise you on the 90, I’m sure there would be less problems collecting the 10. Like i said above it’s hard for greed to slip into the home without it slipping into the Church. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

Did Jesus Fulfill the Law?

May 28th, 2010

In Matthew 5:17 Jesus states, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Frankly, i’m quite tired of this verse being used, abused, misused, and misinterpreted. When most people use this verse to defend tithing they have no clue what that verse means. When people point to that verse, their purpose is to say, “Look here! See . . . i told you that Jesus wasn’t throwing out the law; He was actually confirming it.”

Of course, i get all fidgety because their ignorance  requires a great measure of restraint on my part. I just wanna shake them, slap them, and scream until my blood vessels are bulging from my eye balls!

People only whip this verse out to defend some sort of  biblical pet peeve of theirs. Would most people use this verse to defend their stance on stoning children, on circumcision, or clean meats? Obviously not. Call it hypocrisy, inconsistency; i don’t care. Just don’t classify their behavior as a clear, mental state.

Truthfully, i hate when arguments about tithing always whittle down to debates about obeying, defining, and fulfilling the law. I don’t claim to have it all figured out; but to me, if we’re still arguing about the law 2000 years later, we might as well pack our bags and leave the argument. It’s quite laborious and somewhat embarrassing to actually be in a conversation about what Jesus meant when he came to fulfill the law.

Do i really need to take the time to explain why ‘do not kill’ is irrelevant because ‘do not hate’ has always existed? Do i really need to explain that although Jesus emphasized ‘do not hate’ in the New Testament, this doesn’t mean He was raising the standards? Do i really need to give the difference between eternal laws, compared to civil and ceremonial laws? Do i need to explain to you why giving 10% is just as effective as circumcision is? Seriously? Do i really?

Did Jesus fulfill the law? Of course he did. What did Jesus mean when he said, ‘fulfill’? Here’s a short synopsis of the definition of fulfill from blueletterbible.org

  1. To make full
  2. To complete
  3. To carry through to the end
  4. To accomplish

What part of the definition of fulfill makes a strong case to continue or confirm tithing? I seem to get the feel of termination from the words ‘complete’, ‘end’, & ‘accomplish’. I’ve used this analogy before, so i’ll use it again. Let’s say i  gave you an empty bucket, and i wanted you to use it to gather rain water. Once the bucket was full, could you continue to use it to gather more rain water? You would either need to get a new bucket, or empty that one out. Filling the bucket up wouldn’t abolish the purpose of that bucket, it would just abolish your reason to continue its use.

Romans 7:4 states, “My brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another

So, did Jesus fulfill the law?  I’m not saying i have it all figured out, but my final question to you is, which bucket are you still carrying around? The one that’s full or the one that needs to be filled?

How Churches Invest Their Money

May 18th, 2010

An interesting report came out on the 17th by Joshua Ritchie from Mint.com. It’s titled, “How Churches Invest Their Money”. Here’s my quick breakdown of the article

LDS – Church of the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons)

  • “current LDS assets totaled $30 billion”
  • “If LDS were a corporation, Time continued, its estimated $5.9 billion in annual revenues would have placed it midway through the Fortune 500.”
  • “Bonneville International Corporation, which controls over two dozen top radio stations across six states, is also wholly owned by LDS through Deseret Management Corporation, the church’s for-profit arm.”

RCC – Roman Catholic Church

  • “In 2005, MSNBC reported that the Roman Catholic Church owned more real estate globally than any other organization or individual on earth.”
  • “In 2001, an official report stated that the church’s real estate activities in fiscal year 2000 produced $81.7 billion in revenue on $51.8 billion in expenses: a nearly $30 billion profit.”
  • “The Boston Globe found that “contributions from worldwide dioceses” totaled $92.9 million in 2005, while individual donations made directly to the Pope neared $60 million.”
  • “In 2005, MSNBC’s Nanette Hansen even wondered if Pope Benedict XVI would “have to be a money manager as well as a spiritual leader.””

ELCA – Evangelical Lutheran Church

  • “In fiscal year 2009, the church claims to have earned $1,698,336 from “investment income”, $2,238,629 from “bequests and trusts” and another $1,003,420 in rental income. The same report lists a separate column of “temporarily restricted” revenues, on which another $1,625,000 in investment income is reported.”