Tithe Stewardship & Church Tithing

In my many discussions about debates about Tithing, if the debate lasts long enough eventually this question always pops up, “Since you don’t believe in tithing, how much do you give under grace? Is it more than the law or less?” This question is the most ignorant question i receive in the tithing debate. Typically this means that they’ve run out of arguments, or they are sick of repeating the accusation that i am throwing out the Old Testament. This is why i bring you 10 ways to respond when a tither wants to know how much you give, just because you are against tithing.

1. Grace givers could also ask the question about how many of the tithers are actually giving cheerfully and godly? My assumption would be that the percentage is lower than those that give gracefully.

2. What is the average that believing tithers give? According to statistics on barna.org, it doesn’t seem like tithers are giving what they should either.

3. Greed is not biased to those who practice grace giving. May I remind you that Israel fell to the cloak of greed while under the tithing law anyways.

4. The Mormon cult gives more than any religion or denomination but that doesn’t confirm their theology.

5. The steward in Matthew 25 who gave 100% of his 2 talents back to his master was still considered a bad steward.

6. It was only the Pharisees who were interested in shortcomings of others while expressing how they elegantly obeyed the OT requirements.

7. I’ll let God be the one to tell you what He’s received from me.

8. I give nine-and-a-half percent. (just to throw them off)

9. Most of the time I keep 0% of my income. God seems to find a use for all of it.

10. Is it common for you to base scriptural truth on the performance of mankind?

I have just been going bonkers because i am so busy. I have my own business that i work out of my home, and i have clients lining up and calling. I really shouldn’t be writing now, but i think writing helps with stress. I have a few articles about tithing that are lined up ready to post, but i havn’t had the time to really sit down and finalize them. I could write them here and now, but i just feel like writing about miscellaneous stuff to unstrap the stress off my back.

So anyways, i think i just feel like ranting on about time, maybe stewardship of our time. I don’t know maybe i’ll rabbit trail into something else. So yeah, i’ve been busy. there’s no time. i am broke. And i am stressed. I feel physically, emotionally, and spiritually burnt. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good that i’m busy with my business, but my business is new, so it’s not like the money is great yet. Last sunday i didn’t give any money to the rest of the church. That’s the first time i’ve done that for a long time. I don’t know. I know i’m really broke, and i know that i have lots of bills coming up. One thing to note, my wife’s pregnant with our first, so that adds to the stress. And then the maternity clothes, the baby stuff, my wife’s income will drop are all adding to the stress.

Just to let you know, i don’t have cable, i don’t have a play station, or wii, or xbox. i don’t have a 42″ plasma flat screen TV. I have one small non-name brand TV that makes a high pitched noise sometimes. I’ve got a 01′ truck without power windows, without power locks, and without leather seats. My wife has a 97′ camry that is dented up, has parts falling off, has different car parts from different cars ( kind of like a Frankenstein car). Amazingly under the hood the camry is better than a rolls royce. Side note: i would recommend a camry to anyone. I live in a 1000 square foot house with a fence around that is broken down and laying in my yard. My grass is brown because i do not have the money to spend to water it.

i guess these are things on my mind at the moment. i guess what you are suppose to do is give them to christ, but it’s not like i just put them in a box, put a UPS sticker on it, and ship it to the pearly gates. I have to admit, my communication with God and in his word has dwindled lately. I guess its been the business. i guess it’s been the busyness.

I was talking with someone the other day. I don’t understand how retired people do nothing all day. that would drive me crazy. maybe its the ADD generation that we live in but i can’t imagine me living the way some retired people do. When i did tiling in a retired couples home one time, i saw that their house was spotless, and immaculate, but there was Mrs. Retiree, dusting away as if there was anything there. I guess later on she had a friend over and they played bridge, but that just looked torturous as well. Mr. Retiree, well, i don’t know where he was or what he was doing but he was in his garage, which was immaculate as well. What is retirement? i would define it as death if there wasn’t such a thing as the end of a heartbeat.

I guess another thing recently on my mind is my wife’s grandfather just passed away on thursday. He was a pearl harbor survivor. He was a tough old guy but had some soft spots.

At this moment I don’t think i know what it means to give your life to Chirst. I’m sure there are those that are astounded at that statement? but i mean when there are new challenges in life, how do you give them to Christ? How would you handle if your spouse or child died? I’m sure you would take the news right away, and just be ok, and in control because that’s in christ’s hands? There are so many new things that jump out at us all the time, and each time, we’ve gotta go through the same process of finding peace, and comfort, and strength in God again. Each new challenge is like a new path that we have never taken before. Granted, my worries mentioned above are not big, by any means, it’s just that the challenge is new, and it is unknown.

I just keep walking down this path, hoping that i will meet God somewhere along the way. I know that i am off course so many times, but there are times that i’ve been off course and i was just wishing that i was on course. i wish God was right there. Someone i could touch. Someone i could just see. Call me a doubting Thomas if you will, but sometimes my flesh wants to feel the tangible. Sure the sun, the moon, nature, the stars are all tangible things of God, but that’s not what i mean. I’m talking about seeing God create the intangible. It’s not enough to just see these things, but i want to see them created. I want to see how God manipulates things with his power. I want to see how he’s moving in my life. I want to see what he’s got prepared for me. I want to see what he’s done, and how he’s done things just for me.

I guess that’s why you call it faith. Faith is probably the most energy draining exercise that mankind performs on his own. Maybe its the only thing that mankind performs without God. I’ve heard the bible say that god is our strength, our refuge, our food, our life, our energy, our foundation, our hope. But i don’t think i’ve ever heard that God is our faith. Maybe this is the only journey that we’ve ever had to carry on our own. I don’t know, i havn’t researched the bible or anything to find out if God says he’s our faith, but right now this seems like the only thing that God has left in our hands.

Of all the things that God left us with to manage it had to be faith. Faith is made up of the things that we can’t see, what we can’t touch, what we can’t hear, smell, or taste. We can’t practice faith with any of our 5 senses, but yet God has left this daunting task in the hands of mortals. I guess God has faith in us.

Maybe that’s the key. I see myself as nothing, hopeless, mindless, clueless, and helpless, but God has faith in us regardless. He showed that he does many, many times. Maybe this is where my faith comes from. If God can invest faith in someone who is unholy, then i can invest my faith in the holy.

I don’t have much time to write about this one, but here’s a news article that talks about a Church who is kicking out an 80 year old, social security paid, single woman because she only paid her tithe twice this year.

See News article here

I hate that churches can keep their non-profit status after pulling stunts like this. The Church acts just like the IRS.

I have already done an introduction to Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola & George Barna, so now i want to get into a little more of the book. besides the one chapter on tithing & clergy salaries, the book is not about stewardship, but i do think the book overall has made an important impact on my thoughts about the Church that i feel the need to write about it.

Without reading far into the book you get the notion that Barna and Viola are into the house church/organic church movement. What would anyone have against a biblically pure organic, home Church? One of the statements that caught my attention in the book was this,

“The Christianity that conquered the Roman Empire was essentially a home-centered movement.”

It strikes me because we think that the bigger our footprint on creating religious real estate, than the bigger influence we will have in our society. History disproves this theory. The first century Christians turned the world upside down without the organizational and structural presence that we hold on dear today (Acts 17:6). Essentially what Frank Viola and George Barna are saying is, we don’t need this stuff like we think we do. Most of us think what would we do without a church building? The same goes for tithing. What would we ever do if everyone just gave as they felt led? We think everything would just fall apart.

Pagan Christianity basically takes everything we practiced about Church and throws it all away. It is very radical indeed. I think that we need something radical anyways. If you were smart you would keep your mind open to radical thoughts. When Jesus entered this earth, he was very radical. He took everything that the Jews knew about God and his laws and threw them out the door. This upset many people. The Jews had every reason to say, “but we’ve been doing it this way for 2,000 years. This man (Jesus) is a heretic.”

Put away the fancy clothes, the pews, the pulpit, the altar calls, the hymn books, the praise and worship team, the ushers, the 1-2-3 or 4 man pastoral show, the hype, the buildings, the fancy architecture, the high overhead, the order of the service, the outlined sermon, the religious heirarchy, the ordination & seminary requirements, the choir, tithing & clergy salaries. Put away all of that because it is not a biblical requirement. What do you have in Church beyond all of that? You have Church at the very roots of what God wanted it to be about. . . -Him.

One last quote from the book,

“Granted, Christ may be able to express Himself through one or two members of the church-usually the pastor and the music leader. But this is a very limited expression. “

You see what happens is we go to church, get comfortable, and we become spectators. Everyone does not have an opportunity to use their gifts and talents in the body. We are practically shut up. What Pagan Christianity is saying is that Christ is only expressed through the pastor or music leader when we come together, and this is not how God intended the Church body to function. Romans 12:6 says, “Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them” Also in Colossians 3:16, “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.” And in 1 Peter 4:11, “As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God.” Lastly in 1 Corinthians 14 we can see that God set up an order in the Church for prophesying and teaching.

Typically on Sunday’s when we come together, there’s only 1 or 2 people sharing, admonishing, or teaching. I think we all need an opportunity to share. Not just 1 or 2. The way our Church is structurally set up today does not stimulate growth and participation. Actually it prohibits it. This is the heart of what Frank Viola is getting at in Pagan Christianity.

What do you think about the house church/organic church movement? Do you think there are some positives? Do you think there are some negatives?

Ever since i had picked up the book, “Pagan Christianity” and read the first few pages i eagerly waited to write about it. Pagan Christianity is one of only a few books that i have read in my life that has profoundly changed me in the way i think about Church. I am not that type of person that is easily persuaded or misled easily. I go about things with an open mind but am very, very skeptical and idealistic when it comes to revolutionized thinking about the operation of the body of Christ. I also consider myself a creative individual but at the same time methodical. I say all that about myself because i think there’s a lot to say about the book that will strike its readers at the core of their creativeness, methodology, skepticism, and ideology. Pagan Christianity is not a book for the weak or closed minded. Pagan Christianity is not for the careless or complacent person either. This book will offend everyone in some way, but with the truth presented so well by Frank Viola & George Barna you are left with no choice but to put away your offenses and eagerly read on.

For those who do not know what Pagan Christianity is about, here is an excerpt on the back cover that should give you a preface “Most of what present-day Christians do in church each Sunday is rooted, not in the new testament, but in pagan culture and rituals developed long after the death of the apostles.”

There are 12 topics discussed in this book

1. Have We Really Benn Doing It by the Book?
2. The Church Building
3. The Order of Worship
4. The Sermon
5. Sunday Morning Costumes
6. Ministers of Music
7. Tithing and Clergy Salaries
8. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper
9. Christian Education
10. Reapproaching the New Testament
11. A Second Glance at the Savior

Consider these chapters the main categories because inside each of these chapters are even more specific sub topics.

What Frank Viola and George Barna must have done is somehow wipe their memory of anything they can remember about the event we call “Church”. As they do that, they present historical facts and scripture to present the idea that we are pagan Christians. All our traditions, rituals, habits, things that seem so normal have now been researched to show their roots in historical pagan culture.

As i was reading this book my mind was turning the whole time, “what’s wrong with that practice?. . . How can we do without that?” But then i started thinking, “Well, why can’t we do without it?. . . there’s no reason that we must have it. . .Then why do i feel so tied to it?” Looking back I found myself defending and rationalizing our common traditions in the Church, but before long i began to ask myself why am i defending a practice that is not set in stone in the bible? Offended people are really just shocked people that have no real argument to stand with their feelings. Making a decision based on our offenses is probably the most blind sided thing that we can do, and i didn’t want to do that, so i read on with an open mind.

Pagan Christianity is the type of book that some would call, “throwing the baby out with the bath water”. Frank Viola & George Barna wipe the slate clean of what we understood to be the formula we call the Church event. You are left standing there just shocked, confused, and perplexed as everything you witnessed, and saw as Church is thrown out completely; and all that is left is an empty tub of just bare bone fellowship, and communion of a body of believers.

This book had an experience on me that i cannot express in enough words on this blog. I will bring more in the next few days because this was just my introduction to Pagan Christianity. I will probably write my thoughts about the chapters in the next post, but plan on writing a different post just on tithing and the clergy salary. I would urge everyone to read this book. This is the book that people will love or they will hate. But i guarantee you cannot put this book down after reading and not somehow be shaken up by its pages. P.S. By the way if you purchase the book make sure you buy the revised and updated version.

Have any of you read Pagan Christianity? Has it impacted you at all? Or do you think it is not worth reading at all?

Just randomly thinking today . . .

. . . Stewardship isn’t defined by what you give it’s defined by what you’ve kept. (hmmm, a good quote for those lavish televangelists)

. . . The tithe used to help the poor, but in these days it has created even more.

. . . In Matthew 25:25, the servant who gave 100% back to his master, was still considered a bad steward.

. . . It’s ironic that we trust that the Spirit will bring in some priceless souls, but can’t fathom Him bringing in a few bucks. That we leave up to tithing.

. . . Is The Spirit in charge of offerings, but not in charge of tithes?

. . . As long as one seeks counsel from the Spirit in his giving there will always be a spiritual battle. But as soon as we’ve replaced the Spirit with our own standards, then the Spiritual battle has already been lost.