- Abraham gave 10% of the spoils of war while Israel was required to give less from the spoils of war. (Hebrews 7:4; Numbers 31:28-30)
- Of all the recorded events about giving in the New Testament Church, there is not a single one about tithing.
- Are the children required to pay tribute? (Matthew 17:25; Galatians 4:5)
- Jacob freely offered the tithe because he knew without a requirement, it was of freewill to give. (Genesis 28:20)
- None of the Israelites tithed while outside of the promised land. (Deuteronomy 12:5)
- Abraham was born under an Old Testament covenant that was established long before Moses. (Genesis 3; Hebrews 8:13)
- The poor received the tithes and did not pay them. (Deuteronomy 26:12)
- Giving is the only gift that has a minimum requirement before you learn to exercise it as a Spiritual gift.
- There is no New Testament command to continue or even modify tithing according to the structure of the New Covenant.
- Israelites who did not grow food or raise animals did not tithe. (Leviticus 27:30)
Related Posts
- Bible verses about tithes
- If Tithing Looks Like it & Acts Like It
- Top 10 Reasons Why Tithing is Not Required
- Jacob’s Tithing Vow
Tags: church, giving, stewardship, tithe, tithing
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My College room-mates told me about this website.
It’s really cool to voice an opinion and hear what others have to say. We may not always agree but let’s try to respectfully disagree.
My opinion is pertaining to the similarity of the tithing Police and various people who pray to ( as they say, The Virgin) Mary, Saints in Heaven an Angels. The Tithing Police are just as vocal and adamant about paying tithes for the Lord to bless them as Roman Catholics are about praying to Mary, Saints an Angels, etc. as previously mentioned by Pete and Anonymous. I study my Bible everyday and both of these activities are not supported in the New Testament for the early New Testament Churches. In the New Testament it states plainly that there is only Mediator between God and Mankind and one Intercessor at the right hand of God. This is Jesus our Advocate with the Father not Mary, Saints or your dead Aunt Matilda. Furthermore, no one but God is everywhere at the same time and can see and hear everything and every thought at the same time. This is an attribute of the Godhead. In Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form, according to the New Testament. Therefore, please show me Scriptures that there is some other Advocate or Mediator.
You may feel that the Saints in Heaven, Angels, Mary, have answered your prayers or even your dead Aunt but let me be so bold as to just say that God is the one answering your prayers and extending to you His patience and long suffering by helping you. It is also not your Tithing record that is moving God to help you either. It is His own goodness and good pleasure that moves Him to act on our behalf. Jesus said “ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be open unto you”. Paul is clear that in Christ we have a more excellent way to gain whatever is needed through faith in Jesus.
If you are planning to blog how you feel that people should mind their own business and the verse when Jesus told Peter in John 21:21 to mind his own business go right ahead, even better if you can find New Testament Scriptures to substantiate your following Old Testament tithing requirements as NT Law, or praying to other-than God as sound doctrine. I welcome Scriptures that I possibly have overlooked but don’t twist out of context, come correct or not at all.
In defense of John and Obedient:
I got it (the reason you give).
Anyone who has fallen madly & passionately in love can tell you it is no small thing. There is nothing you would not do for that person. Jesus in the very nature is God but came down here and went through all kinds of suffering and abuse for us. He made a complete spectacle of Himself by hanging naked and beat up on that Cross all for love, for us! Don’t try to say you have never made a complete fool of yourself when you fell hard for someone either. Weren’t you so obsessed that it was like you had lost your mind? The Object of your love had your heart. You went beyond your reasonable limit for this person (or thing, even some habit or hobby can possess you).
Real Love holds NOTHING back, including your time, talent and TREASURE! I”m determined to go all the way in God and let Jesus totally take over everything I have! I will not allow Him to be heading a long list of other lovers. I want Him to be THE FIRST AND FOREMOST IN ALL THINGS, because He is the clue that holds together all the good there ever was. I also need God in every aspect of my life. Only He gives everlasting life. My Lord and King Jesus is welcome into every door of my heart. Nothing is off limits.
Okay, so you may say that the way tithing is presented in most Churches is not taught according to the New Testament Covenant of Grace as most have so eagerly pointed out, but it personally helps me to be disciplined and is a reminder to include the Lord in my money making decision and it is my act of worship.
On the opposite view:In defense of Doc.Kelly he has stayed on all the correct points in his book. I checked it out. But like all of you who are telling pro-tithers want is wrong you are not offering a solution that will to fix it and help the Churches financially stay solvent. Where are the books on how to give Under the New Covenant of Grace? There is enough (word) meat in the NT Bible on reasons to give the three T’s (time, talent & treasure). Especially because the best love we have (God) has given us His, all not sparing His own Son as someone posted. In my heart I believe if it is taught the right way God will bless and sustain the Church even more abundantly!
The Romans 8:3-33 Scripture Too True quoted above says it all:
“Since God did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all will he not with him freely give us all things. This sums up the tithing mandate as false but Too True forgot to put in the 8 as in Chapter 8. It is not chapter 3
Romans 8:32 is the best promise of what has done God did and will do for free in the New Testament Bible!
Well said Tiffany. Bottom line in all of this. God looks on the heart. Follow your own conviction and I feel strongly that God will bless you accordingly.
To Tiffany; It is very good that you checked out Mr.Kelly.In defense of Mr.Kelly is the Bible.You say non- tithers offer no solution.i disagree.God has never provided for a building or the professional clergy ie pastors.Why is the supernatural missing from the majority of institutional christianity and all of catholisism? HE is a supernatural God.Everything HE does, including provide is done supernaturally.My point is God never initiated buildings,sermons,services,missions etc.etc.Because God is LOVE HE has blessed thru the institution.However,not because of them but in spite of them.Many christians observe pagan practices when they “GO” to church.and have done so for the last 500 yrs.Did you know that communion was and is a meal? Not a wafer or matzo washed down with a thimble full of grape juice.i could go on but i won’t.If you really want to know the truth about what i have said, read for your self “pagan christianity”by Frank Viola and George Barna.Paul has spoken to us down thru the centuries.”Brethren i would that you be not ignorant” meaning un-knowing.
Kevin — do you belong to a church (i.e church member?); do you belong to a denomination — a body who has certian beliefs and interpretations/understanding of the bible? How do you personally promote the gospel of Jesus Christ? You know that temples existed during Jesus’s time — right? You know that he commands us to go into all the world and preach the gospel — occupy until he comes — right? I am sure you can understand that God knows and sees the progress the human race has made, and the progression of technology and communication (of course he does – he knows all) — therefore, he will use anyone and anything to be able to gain another soul. That said — there is nothing “pagan” about a building/meeting place, etc. I believe God has ordained it, encourages it, endorses it, blesses it — it is a way for his children to commune and have fellowship. I feel sorry for you if you don’t have a church home. Kevin — every single message you have posted here comes through with a very bitter and angry spirit. Again, I hope that whatever bad experience you have had in a church does not keep you from heaven. Not all church goers are perfect — none of us are, but God has asked his people to reach out and love one another. The body of Christ needs that fellowship, and organization should not be confused at all with pagan rituals.
In terms of communion — aren’t you pushing this too literal? He said “Do this in remembrance of me” — the cracker or wafer and a cup of juice or whatever is to be just a symbol of his body and blood that was sacrificed for us. Don’t ever forget that God looks on the heart. If you partake for the right reasons with a clean heart — I personally believe He is OK with the “way” in which it is done. How can anyone have it completely right. Not a chance. Another good question when we get to heaven — along with the issue of giving/tithing — one among many related to the interpretation of his words don’t you think?
To JOHN AND OBEDIENT,
What do you mean the bible is left up to interpretation on tithing?
Paul the Apostle was very specific & clear. He called the Jews demanding that the Gentiles keep Jewish laws of circumcision (and the verse also said AND OTHER LAWS) “dogs”. Paul also said “watch out for dogs” in another text. He was talking about the people trying to force Laws on the Gentiles as a way to please God and have his Covenant blessings. Peter said “why do you want to burden the Gentiles with a yoke of bondage that we and our ancestors could not keep” it is right there in Acts chapter 15. The entire chapter of 15 of Acts discusses law keeping and what the original Apostles should command the Gentiles to do. Get a Bible commentary and look under dogs or google the Apostle Paul and who he was talking about in Galatians when he called them dogs. He also said those insisting that the Gentiles cut themselves to keep the Jewish circumcision law, that he wished they would be cut off (as in off the planet). Chew on that for awhile if you think Kevin Mitchell are being too harsh.
Paul was not very subtle & he did not mix words he was grace alone through faith alone for every need!
To OBed.Do not waste your pity on me.Unlike you i do not have to “go” to church to be the Church.You are not even worth my time to debate.
If anyone has gone through many Church hurts I can match any story on this subject anytime. Just to briefly touch on what I have experienced: I attended a Church where the Pastor was always talking about various people that were always going through trials, saying we had better check out if they have some secret sin in their life or if they were paying their tithes before we lend the a helping hand. As it turned out this same Pastor admitted to an Adulterous affair lasted almost 2yrs! After getting over shocker, I had attended another Church that was vibrant and growing until that Pastor had an affair and left his wife but thank God they later reconciled. Still another I finally found after much searching had a great Pastor but he retired Then they brought in a young Pastor, we had a majority elderly congregation who seriously loved the Lord. The new young Pastor tried to change everything to more modern including the Music which is a no-no if you know what happens when you mess with the Music,
He was trying to attract younger members that is when all heck broke lose esp. when he fired the Choir Director a third of the Choir left the Church taking their families & friends with them. Mind you this was half the Church.
I could go on & on like this all day but for the sake of time I will get to the bottom line. Kevin is right, we have got to stop going to Church and be the Church!
If I did not love Jesus so much I would have quit and given up a long time ago.
But as someone said before, we cannot confuse the messenger with the message. God is still worth hanging in their, even when people let us down.
Right now pray for me I am not rushing to join another Church just yet, but I am looking for a good Bible Study & Prayer Support Group!
I thought I had real family at my Church and the Lord gave me so much love for my brothers & sisters in Christ. I was always there for whomever I heard had a need, buying groceries for people, sending cards or calling to check up on people that I had not seen for a while, giving rides to people I barely knew etc. I can’t take credit for any of it because the Lord gave the gift of hospitality and encouragement to me in spite of myself. Then I had a series of personal problems hit me like a Freight Truck. I was not able to get to Church neither did I have a car to get across town. No one called, no one came by. It will as if they assumed I fell off the face of the earth. This really hurt me. It seemed like they were all fakes. This was not a big Church where you just blend in and I had been very active. I finally heard from one friend and about a year after that I got a post-card with the Pastor’s stamped signature saying we miss you. I hope it was not because he realized my tithes had stopped coming in because I had finally found another Church home and got back on my feet. If anyone has their eyes on man and not the Lord they are in for a rude awakening! Trust in God alone. It is good to have support from others but if that fails, you have a sure promise from the Lord to never leave us or forsake us and to be with us even to the end of the earth!
Here’s my story too I hope it helps someone.
I went through an emotional struggle with depression a couple of years ago. I thought nothing matters and was longing to be home with my heavenly Father. I was not suicidal just discouraged and burned out on living. Everything was starting to feel like heaviness or tiresome. It was hard work just getting out of bed in the morning. No one knew this but God.
I still loved the Lord very much but I had stopped praising and was hardly reading my Bible. Looking back on it I can see how this contributed to my sadness & emotional instability. One day the Pastor called people to the Altar that needed a special touch from the Lord. I went to the Altar hoping the Pastor would single me out to pray for. When I got down to the Altar the Lord gave me a strong tug on my heart to reach out and hug an Elderly lady that I was friendly to but did not know well. I hugged her and told her she was greatly loved by the Lord & that God saw her every tear and how she made a difference to others. The Lord gave me words for her that I also needed. I was hearing my own words as if God was speaking them to me too. I felt the dark clouds lifting in that moment. We both cried, praised God and hugged one another. She was real grateful for the encouraging words. It was true that she had been an inspiration to me because I could always count on her faithfully sitting on the front row and smiling & nodding when others walked by.
Well, it was about one month later that this lady confessed to a small group of personal friends and myself that she had planned on committing suicide that day after Church and was praying the Lord would understand. I had not heard her painful story but. She had lost two children in a tragic car accident before she came to know the Lord. This was what drew her to God for comfort & hope in eternal life, but her life was still a struggle on Holidays. That day I reached out to her was on Mothers Day. She confessed that she planned it & even had her pills laid out. She was believing the Lord would forgive her for the pain of not wanting to go on anymore. Her only concern was her cat but she left a note for a neighbor who she knew would take care of it.
If you are in a Church, maybe just maybe it might be that the Lord put you there for a special reason, not just for yourself, but to use your speech, your hands and heart to reach out to someone else!
There are needs and hurting people everywhere. We need dot have the mindset that there may not be anyone else to do the job that God is calling us to do. Encouragement and a sincere smile can go a long way. We don’t know what someone may be experiencing. Until the dark clouds pass we may be the sunshine they need. Okay if some of you think this is corny I apologize. But seriously, what if we are the only Jesus (here on earth) or the only Gospel people read.
To be isolated from the Body of Christ, because of what people did or did not do is kind of selfish. “Do you know that you are not our own but have been bought with a price The precious blood of Jesus?”
Someone needs to read this and not throw in the towel.
“Don’t grow weary in well-doing for in (your) due season, you will reap your harvest. That is a promise from God”.
Also meditate on this:
“Keep yourselves in the Love of God looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion making a difference”. Jude 1:20-21
If fellowship and assembling together can also be home based Bible studies and Small groups that meet in houses then my concern is without accountability whose going to monitor the teachings to see if it is the right doctrine?
No one should be able to pronounce a curse over you for not tithing 10 percent of your gross, this is not the way giving is taught in the New Testament Scriptures!
To Blessed by Grace Alone — thank you for your post. I also believe that being isolated is not what God has intended. If that is corporate worship — great. If it includes a bible study or regular fellowship, that’s OK too. If you were to feel like Kevin does as he states above – then God would not have had the opportunity to use you in this setting. I believe God’s design is to seek out fellowship of some structure — it opens the door to ministry, to witnessing, to feeling a part. I know that many people have been hurt by church members, and sometimes don’t understand a pastor’s actions. Just give it to God. Those that wrong you will have to answer to that in due time.
Kevin – I don’t need to debate you. I know what I believe and why I believe it. You have your beliefs. I don’t pity you – I just don’t understand why you have so much anger. Must be a miserable existence.
Melissa what makes you think Churches are held accountable for errors in bible teachings now? Hello! This has been what all the fuss and discussions have been about. Maybe we could all hold each other accountable for manipulating the scriptures.
People that don’t question anything make great candidates for cults. Any Christian should get major things right, such as the divinity of Christ as Immanuel “God with us.”
TO obed? Mind your business! i wasn’t writing to you.You are one of those “open mouth insert foot”christians.You can’t debate.All you have is opinion.Trying to insult me is childish.You should spend time reading and learning so you can debate intelligently without emotion.Overly sensitive are we? Don’t worry my good obed?You will get over me. Have a nice life.
God bless you anyway Kevin. Can you give me your address and I will send you a tithe check and an invitation to attend my church. Come on — Now that’s funny.
Speaking of mistakes in teaching how to give and all of the problems in the Church world. Read the Old Testament and all of their problems.
Do you know where the Twelve tribes of Israel came from? Two came from Joseph’s sons that were added into the equation but the rest of the Tribes came from that old trickster Jacob and those two feuding & jealous of each other wives and their servant girls.
Yes Jacob was a trickster yet God called his lineage starting with Abraham then Isaac right down to Jacob whose name God changed to Israel. If you have read the story you know that the kids of Jacob were jealous of Joseph ( a type of Christ)who was rejected by his brothers but ending up forgiving them and saving them from starvation in the famine after he became 2nd to the King. If God picked this bunch of misfits and started a race of people that God called his very own chosen people then there is hope for the Christian Church. Even when misinformation & hurts occur, as in the tithe teaching, God still made a choice to pick this group of people and make them a nation above other nations. When Pastors or anyone of the Lord’s children do not get it right all the time that does not indicate they are not the Lord’s children.
I would be very careful how I treat Almighty God’s children if I were some of you.
Be afraid, very afraid. This is the Lord’s people and he is very intense and passionate over his children. No matter how stupid you think they are and even if you are right at times & they are wrong, take it up with God, but handle them with care!
KEVIN & OBEDIENT, Phil. 4:3
This if for you both.
I beg Euodias and beg Syntyche that they be of the same mind in the Lord, help these women which labored with me in the gospel with the other fellow workers whose Names are also written in the book of Life!
Paul put these the fact that these two women could not stand each other in the Bible for all generations to read. How would you feel if your names was in the bible for all eternity to read that you had a feud with someone that you could not get along with? But notice there names are written in the book of life. Kinda proves Vernon’s statement, God picked out some messed up children but he knows how to clean us all up. His wrath was fierce in the Old Testament over his children serving other idols to the extent that they sacrificed them in the pagan fires to other god (false gods). God owns everything & made everything so he is the only one with the right to be jealous. What man wants a cheating wife or wife a cheating husband?
It’s dangerous to provoke people madly in love to jealousy. God is the only one with the right to be jealous since he made it all and owns it all. Regardless to whether Oprah or anyone else hates the fact that God is jealous. He can do whatever he wants because he is God and we are not! As far as tithing goes to stay on the subject God is also our Father and we are the Bride of our Lord Jesus Christ. Anybody that is good and decent knows you take care of your bride and not the other way around unless there is a good reason not to-a husband provides for his bride. Also God is not a deadbeat Daddy (Abba) so he is going to take care of you whether you can afford to tithe or not. He promised to hear the cry of the poor. The tithe was food for the poor in the Old Testament and they were never the ones tithing only land owners with crops!
Very interesting reading all of the comments. It’s quite impressive how some of you know the Bible real well.
I’m trying to understand it but it’s a real challenge. Just was wondering if Dr. RUssell E.Kelly being the scholar he is has some method on understanding the Bible better?
I want to study and know my Bible so that I know when something is being taught the right way. I’m on my room- mates computer so I don’t have access to my own just yet.
I read this blog faithfully and enjoy the comments back & forth. My room-mates said, God is the one who reveals Himself by the His Holy Spirit. I’ve been praying for Him to give me wisdom & understanding of His inspired Word (Book/Bible).
I don’t want anything false but the true. Hope you read this and blog back on how to understand the Bible.
Vernon you are so right that God has chosen some strange and flawed, messed up people. His choice is not based on our goodness but His own.
I wish I had known what to say when I was being mocked and made fun of by the mockers on my job when Jimmy Swaggart fell into disgrace back in the late 80″s. I was a new on fire for the Lord born again, sold out Christian and was the only one that got ridiculed and taunted for what Jim Baker & Jimmy Swaggart did. My boss did nothing when a group of them encircled my desk and make fun of me along with Baker and Swaggart. Who I consider men of God that fell into temptation. Imperfect & flawed but men of God nevertheless. Thanks, Vernon for reminding us that God has imperfect children.
We are to grow in Christ but we are not by any means perfect, until we get to Heaven where the Lord will make us perfect like Him. We are all members of one body so when one looks bad we all do. Paul the Apostle instructs us to rebuke, correct and and exhort in Love. If the wheat & tare are growing together, Jesus said that God will do the separating because we might pluck up the tare with the wheat. I was a tare playing Church for many years but the Lord got a hold of my heart one day and wrecked my (sin)-life. I have never been the same!
Tithing vs not Tithing is a distraction when souls are slipping into Hell by the thousands. I pray we can get it right, because teaching it wrong may be causing people to no longer go to Church. Paul said to the Corinthians that he worked with his own hands so the gospel would not be hindered. Calling the Lord’s children cursed for not tithing is displeasing to God. Some one had better not talk to my kids that way & I do not have a fraction of the power that God has!
Speaking of not messing with other peoples children. Someone yanked screamed & mistreated my little girl without a good cause and I was all over them it was only the good Lord above that stopped me from going bonkers.
The Word said “the love of God constrains us first Corinthians 13:1 Truer words were never spoken. The next time we go off on someone, remember God is listening!
I just have to say this. Tithing is an act of faith. God says over and over to prove him. Those of you who think they don’t have it — look deeper into your spending habits and truly consider where your money goes. If you don’t want it to go to a church or a pastor to whom you feel is not preaching the “truth” — then give it to someone on the street. Remember – God looks on the heart. You will be shocked what God will do for you — it may not come back to you monetarily, but he is faithful and will take care of you. I am very careful to make sure I give my “first fruits”. To me, my gift/tithe whatever you want to call it is the first check to write. None of what I receive belongs to me — but God allows me to keep the majority. To me that is amazing. I am not under any curse, and those that preach that are wrong. I cannot stand seeing Christian television that chooses to allow many personalities to manipulate people into giving to “their” ministry. I don’t live far from many of them — and you would be amazed at what they live in – but that is between them and God — they will have to answer to what they have done. Again — give with a cheerful heart, in thankfulness and obedience to God — and you will not go hungry or wanting.
For T. Wilson – I am not feuding with Kevin Mitchell. I believe the discussions have been spirited and could benefit some to see real truth and the diverse beliefs that exist. I have said this before — if someone has really interpreted the bible perfectly, and understands what God has said in EVERY word, then we would not have division among churches and certainly no denominations would exist. A lot of people have hung onto traditions and rituals over time. I honestly believe God grieves over what he sees with his “church”. He just wants a relationship with his children – for us to trust him and know that his son died for our sins, rose again, and will come back some day to take those who have accepted him as savior to heaven. That’s it. You don’t need a priest, preacher, saint, nun, intercessor, etc. to be a proxy for your relationship with God. All of those people may be part of your life, but they can’t save you.
To Jimmy: Get into a bible study with someone you know. Read your bible daily. Ask God to reveal his truth to you through His words. He will help you and his Holy Spirit will guide you – when you feel a “check” in your spirit about something that is said, ask God to help you to clarify. No one person on this earth is correct about everything in the bible. No one scholar or professor at a seminary has it completely right. We are imperfect. I will pray that God puts some solid people in your life that you trust, but continue to read and study and God will direct you. I wish you the best.
Thank OB your answer was appreciated. It is good that put the Lord first but even if you didn’t he give would still love you?
A comment on this board was said God is patient and long suffering. I’m buying a concordance looking to verify the Scriptures on this board. I came from New Age sh..crap, sorry God is still working on me. Now that God has a grip on my heart I will use your good advice and that of the others to verify what I’m told for myself.
Jimmy are you nuts, drinking? You sound out a little out of it! Please man do not let these people fool you. As far as
T Wilson saying God is not a Deadbeat Dad, well what about all the starving children in India and Africa??? I saw that movie Slum dog.
While preachers collect all kinds of money using guilt trips they live like kings & queens on earth. I can’t prove God is not real but watching Christians I don’t even think they believe it deep down. Since you all believe in Hell why hasn’t the so-called Christians I know at work invited me to church. I’m treated like a bug on their wall. These preachers are they in it for themselves? I do believe so. My friends car broke down in front of a large church as big as a Cathedral and he could not get one dime or the time of day for gas or help. He was trying to get to a job interview. Everyone knows not to go to a churches for help. They right off the bat think you’re on drugs, stereotyping you with no proof. Christians at work act just like the rest of us heathens. Don’t give me this about god has some imperfect kids, What kind of excuse is that? Always going to church, at the same time living as if you’ll really don’t believe it. Plus some of these Conservatives are bigots and hate Obama, gays and others that are different. hatefulness is a sin too. Why single out the ones you don’t have a problem with. In my life-time I have met, one genuine Christian & that was one my foster moms & I’m nearly forty. Tithing makes you feel so smart but yet most of you have no problem with treating others that are different like dirt. What good is that money you think you are tithing or giving voluntary to your god if you pass a beggar on the street and turn up your noses? I thought your god said to love people and help them? If God is not a dead beat dad plz explain why not or why is kids are such hateful brats?
Dear Anonymous Skeptic,
OUCH! That hurt! You really unloaded on us. Maybe some of us had it coming. I can’t sit here and pretend that much of what you said was not painfully honest about various people in the Church. There are other people who feel the way you do, but won’t express it so first off, thank you for the time you took to give us your thoughts and for making us aware of your presence. Now please allow my response in return. Your blame toward God for evil and suffering is highly misplaced.
Understand that there is another operative at work here. It is evil caused by an arch-enemy of God, who hates God and he hates people because they were created in God’s image. satan’s job is to kill, steal & destroy but God came to Give eternal life and life more abundantly. God is extending His love toward you right, now free of charge! No Tithes are needed to reach out to Him an have all of His good promises. The arch-enemy of God was defeated at the cross of Christ. The fall of Adam gave satan the legal right and title deed to possess and hold captive all sinners here on earth but Christ has redeemed us bought back what was lost in the fall!
Man’s inhumanity to man has been around since Cain killed Abel. No one has yet to prove God does not exist, so the real term is agnostic or skeptic. The fact that you realize this gives me a ray of hope that you may yet turn to God, even if it is pin-size light God can use that little bit.
I admit that He would be grossly unfair if this life was all there is, but we believe that it’s not even close compared to eternity.
We trust that God will Judge accurately with perfection and precision. No one is getting away, or getting over. Not the fakes or anyone else who have rejected His plan of Salvation. Every action and thought is going to be wide open before God and played back, better than a tape on rewind.
We live in a Fallen imperfect world, all because sin and satan’s influence entered in. Everything is infected with sin and by sin. One day God is going to make everything new and perfect again, the way He originally intended it to be.
One rebellious man, named Adam committed high treason against God and gave satan the legal right to enter in and bring lies, pain and suffering with him. The Holy Spirit is the restraining power. He is holding back the magnitude of evil and devastation that would end this world. Did you also know that satan has children just like God does? Jesus made reference to persons as being like their father the devil. Due to the Fall of Adam, everyone’s Spiritual DNA is infected with sin. Everyone has a bent toward sin which includes the sin of rejecting, denying and disbelief in God. God is the one who took the initiative and came to seek and save the lost.
While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. No one is born Saved. We are born again when we repent, confess Him as our Lord and open our hearts and let Him come in. The outward ceremony & rituals is not what saves us. Jesus death on that cross saved us because he paid for the punishment we deserved as our bridge back to God. He loves you even in your anger against Him. Beneath the surface of your anger is hurt. I was (like) you about 13 years ago, said almost the identical
things you said. Most of us feel that time is getting closer to the return of Christ. The return of Jesus our Lord, is our Blessed Hope.
You want God to end all suffering and evil? If He did things would not go well for you. You would end right with it because you would not be qualified to live with Him in His home in Heaven. He is delaying His coming so that you will repent and turn to Him.
Don’t allow bitterness pride, anger, or failure to forgive others send you to Hell.
We can do our part to end evil and suffering in the world by beginning with ourselves by choosing to love and follow Jesus & His teachings.
It is your choice. God didn’t make us Robots. No one with any sense would want Robot love. Love that is forced is not real love at all. The Bible describes God as a Consuming fire. God will one day consume the wicked, evil and unrepentant. You have a choice of being consumed with the flame of His Holy Spirit or consumed by his Justice & Holy wrath. Pay for your own fine when you stand guilty before Him, or you can accept the payment Jesus made for you and Be saved from Hell and judgment. Just because there are fakes in the Church does not excuse you.
Don’t dismiss our belief that God has an arch-enemy that wants to hurt people made in the image of God. The Bible said satan came to kill, steal and destroy. But Jesus said He came to bring life more abundantly. satan is a very clever and cunning adversary. He makes people blame God for what he has done. He is fallen angel, who was kicked out of heaven and given a new home called Hell. He makes our world a living hell because his home is already one.
If no one else tells you I’m telling you now, don’t go to Hell by rejecting the only Savior you have! If you go there you will remember my words and plea.
There is coming a day when all suffering & evil will end an every knee will bow at the name of Jesus.
What’s the delay you may be asking? God has not come back yet because He is giving skeptics (and fakers in the Church) mercy and time get right. Accept his love for free right now. You can’t say with 100 percent certainty you will be here tomorrow.
Get right, or get left-(behind)!! I was (like) you about thirteen years ago. Please think it over. I recommend a book called “23 minutes in Hell.”
To Skeptic,
You said if God was not a Deadbeat Dad why does he have starving children in India & Africa?
Do you realize there are enough Cows in India for filet mignon every day of the week? The majority of those people will not touch the cows because they believe the cows are sacred reincarnations of their beloved Ancestors. As far as Africa goes, it is their own Tribal wars an evil or religious (not Christian) extremist dictators destroying their land.
There is a Christian Charity called Gospel for Asia. They have sent Millions of dollars for water drills, houses, food, clothes, etc. Be informed when you go throwing stones. Ever heard of “He that is without sin cast the first stone?”
If people belonged to Jesus they would not deliberately hurt/harm others. Please don’t go blogging about the Crusades. This is a tired worn-out example. The Crusaders were fakes like the ones you so bluntly described. Did it ever dawn on you that you don’t see every secret thing the way God does? Your vision and world view is a fraction of all there is to know about the world and the people in it. How many so-called Christians have you met anyway? Five or six at your job compared to millions all over the world?
In other words you don’t have enough information, You are not as intelligence as God. So chill out. Only God has the whole picture. Sorry, if fake Christians wouldn’t help your friend. Look to Jesus not people and just get over your malice. You could be shortening your lifespan by being so negative. Do you think it’s healthy to harbor so much hatred?
Read the Bible. The Psalms are a good start and the Gospel of John. Learn who Jesus is.
He will help you. Get your eyes off of what people are and are not doing. None of them have a Heaven or Hell to put you in but Jesus does! Let him change your heart of stone. Don’t let the devil make a fool of you and waste your precious life in bitterness and anger, it takes too much of your mental energy!
Christians take the worst verbal beatings. Even more than any other group including Muslims. I have never read a blog against any other religion blaming their gods for anything. The devil knows the threat to his kingdom is the Christian God. The real God.
It is the one religion where God reaches downward to pull you upward. All others have to tithe and do a bunch of good deeds and work, then they still have no assurance of their Salvation. As for skeptic- I would like to see him/her go on a Buddha, Hindu, Muslim blog and call them fakes and throw accusations at their god!
There was an incorrect quote from a remark previously made.
2nd Corinthians 5:14 “the love of God constrains us” and modern versions read “the love of God rules us”. Not like Politicians who yell out not respecting the office of the Presidency for the whole world to laugh at America yet call themselves Christ-ians
What if every time some liar in the Pulpit stood up and taught to tithe or God’s curse would come upon you someone yelled out
“You Lie” ???
I Bet some of those same people are Church going, Anti-Obama Conservatives who are congratulating that Senator but they would be dragging you out of there and having you arrested for disorderly conduct just goes to show you how lame they are.
Obedient said tithing was an act of faith, no it is not! It was Jewish Law to the Jews and for the Jews only.
God never said anyone outside of the Jewish Covenant had to prove him by keeping those Covenant Laws they were not designed for Gentiles who Jews considered pagan dogs in the days of Jesus and Moses.
I am a Christian Jew and know the facts. There were nearly seven hundred Jewish Laws, including Observances, Feast and Rituals. The Temple sacrifices, Priest from Leviticus ancestry, animal sacrifices and all of those rituals and Laws have been done away with and the penalty for breaking any law of Moses which resulted in death by stoning. Breaking just one bought a curse from God.
The Torah (first five books of the Bible), and the Prophets point to a Messiah who would come and reign as Prophet Priest and King! When you read your from your Old Testament you have to understand who the Law of Moses applied to at that time. You can’t take something said to a specific group of people (Jews) and include others. Jews had no dealings with Gentiles and were forbidden to even marry them. Although some slipped through in rare cases like Ruth but converted into the Jewish Religion.
Gentiles were considered aliens and outsiders. The Veil of Jewish Temple which separated Gentiles and even Jews that were not a High Priest is gone and was torn by God when Yeshua, Jesus died. His death has bought us a Better Covenant. Law keeping which is Legalism is not faith but human work!
Can’t sleep so I decided to blog surf on Christian topics.
I would like to address Damon, maybe he will read this.
Damon, how can you call Conservative Christians lame for something they have not even done based on what you think they might do if something happens that has not even happened yet???
Just shows how lame you are!
You seriously need Jesus!
I think Obedent meant that this is his act of faith that is by tithing. You all are making the word sound out to be some kind of dirty word. Tithe Tithe Tithe
now I said it and have not been struck down by lighting, neither has fire fallen from heaven to consume me. Why don’t you all just live and let live? Differences of opinion is what makes the world go round. I am not a Christian like all of you but if being a Christian makes me narrow minded then I can’t see the benefits of joining your ranks!
In response to No Thanks:
No thanks broad is the way that leads to destruction but narrow is the way to eternal life.
Not everything can be compromised. What if you told your spouse if you have one that they could not go out and date another person and then your spouse called you narrow minded? Do you run a red light and then if you get a ticket tell the cop he is being narrow minded? Everything has a definite right and wrong except when it comes to our belief system then we are called narrow minded for being convinced of what we know is true! When you stand before God and or judged for breaking his laws and commandments are you going to tell him that he was being too narrow-minded? Get a clue because as of now you are clueless but God help and bless you anyway. Stay in tune with the things of God and don’t expect perfection from anyone but His Son Jesus!
Two great Jewish Ministries that love Jesus and are spreading the Gospel are “Chosen Peoples Ministry” and “Jews for Jesus”
Check them out!
Let me get this straight you called Conservative Christian lame for something you imagined they would do but haven’t even done? And you are calling some Christian Conservatives lame, or you smoking something you shouldn’t be smoking or maybe you just need to go get some rest!
This blog has me laughing so hard that I’m crying! Are you all for real? Just to think how people think Reality
Shows are entertaining but they are missing out on the real entertainment I am hooked like a fish with a hook in its jaw. Keep it up people or my life would be b–o–r–i–n–g!
I hope Alisha laughs her way into eternal life by accepting Jesus as your Lord & Savior. Don’t let our disagreements fool you. We agree on this one main point, that without Jesus and the penalty he paid on the cross you will one day find yourself in a really burning hot place. Still laughing??
Not all Christians believe in a burning hell. At least not my Christian friends who live in my Apartment building an tricked me into an invitation to join them but it was a bible study.
Not even two of you people (Christians)can agree about anything! So whose right and whose wrong? Ponder on that and just shut up!
The Bible is like a puzzle if one piece is out of order and is missing then the entire meaning can be lost. Well meaning Christians have disagreements because many
have accepted and are passing along second hand information or worst information that they think sounds good. In various cases Churches & religious traditions have resulted because of misinformation due to second hand information that is not even supported by the Bible.
There are also false teachers that have taken one sentence and a verse from the Bible to support a way to profit financially or get some power or advantage. Cults have gained a following by proclaiming to have had a so-called visions of a special new revelation other than the one already given us in the Bible. Then changed the Bible and added or subtracted key words from the original. This makes it a counterfeit doctrine. Some cult religions that knock on people’s doors are lying and even calling l themselves Christians, but when they deny that Jesus is God in the flesh they contradict themselves. This is why it is so very important to open the Authorized KJV or NKJV Bible or any credible authorized version and began reading Verse by Verse and Chapter by Chapter from Genesis to Revelation, without leaving any single verse or Chapter out.
Jesus should be the key theme that run throughout. In the Gospel of John, Jesus said the Scriptures were about him. John 5:46 “For if you believed Moses you would believe me for Moses wrote about me.” Every word should be prayerfully pondered and studied in light of the entire Chapter. Know who the subject is, who is being addressed what era, what custom and who the audience is that is being addressed. Example: In Middle Eastern culture, traditionally women could not have their hair hanging down and had to cover their heads when men (not their husbands)were present. A woman wearing her hair long and hanging down,culture is not a sign of loose morals or a lack of good morals in our Western culture, although Nuns and Catholics women had to cover their heads at Mass before Vatican II. You might still see Middle Eastern American women cover their heads while out in the Marketplace. Another Middle Eastern practice (in Jesus earthly day), was to lay on the floor on pallets in a reclining position to dine (eat). They did not sit in upright chairs at a high tables, like the Da Vinci painting and that almost famous (fake) movie that tried to depict Mary Magdelene sitting at the table next to Jesus. You can never have any real depth in understanding the Bible without first accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior because the Bible is a book that is living, active and God inspired. Bible revelation comes by the Holy Spirit who gives Illumination Guidance, Truth Revelation. He will lead you into all truth, remind you of the truth and reveal the things of God. Knowing the Bible is what the Holy Spirit will use and bring to your memory. Jesus sent Him to us as our Comforter and Guide. Finally a good source to learn from are credible and established Apologetic Ministries. such as “Stand to Reason” and JP Moreland PHD and teacher at Biola University which is a well-known credible established strict to the word Christian University. They study the Bible and compare it to the original Greek translation then defend the Bible from that basis. (Apologetic is a Greek word, the translation is to defend the Faith, does not mean to apologize for it).
If you do not open your Bible and read every single word from Genesis to Revelation then you will be open prey for cults, disinformation, scams and errors. I may be long winded but I hope this helps.
Can someone tell me how to get the book, Should the Church Teach Tithing by Russell Kelly. I checked and it is not in the Christian book store nearby. I am using a friends computer and do not know how to order it on line. I also would like to know where he is speaking or airing on the next documentary. Any info. will be appreciated!
Oh yeah I would also like to the names of various Christian Apologetic organizations and the best bible to buy is it King James, New King James, New International or American Standard and don’t they kind of change the words or use different words to describe the same thought. I went to the Library and looked the different ones and it sure was confusing because they used different wording in some isn’t the King James the closet translation to the Greek. I also went through a concordance and did saw the word tithing in the Old Testament but in the New it was Jesus addressing the Pharisees or talking about them in a negative way I did not find anything to support tithing in any way after His resurrection or after he Died at the Cross. So I looked it up for myself and have to fall in the there no evidence to support it for the church today group, I would do it to support a church as soon as I find a good one!
To the Jew who loves Jesus. I am happy you have discovered that he is the Messiah — that’s awesome. I have to correct you however on your statement about faith. Serving God and believing in his word is ALL ABOUT FAITH. It is a “faith” walk every day. Don’t get hooked by your ancient laws. Giving is an act of faith. You decide. We will all have to answer for our actions on the day of judgment.
OBedient, I came to my conclusion by the remark you wrote that God said to “prove him”. I assumed you were making reference to the Malachi verse which was a promise that God would open the windows of Heaven and pour out his favor (blessings)for the tithing? This was for Jews not Gentiles.
For clarification I just wanted to make it known that this was a promise and guarantee to Jews under God’s binding Covenant Law. God said they (the Jews) had not kept the Laws. It was not just the tithe Law that they had strayed from. Read all of the Laws, Jewish festivals, Feast, rituals and ceremonies. They all had to be fulfilled right down to the letter of the Law.
Gentiles were not at any time given any Jewish binding Covenant with God. I don’t want to disrespect any person that is not a Jew, but this is fact not fiction. Jews in those days were considered as low as dogs.
Paul an Apostle of God turned it around an called Jews that were holding onto the Law for a relationship with God instead of having faith in Jesus (our Yeshua), dogs.
Gentiles were called dogs for many reasons. To name some of the major reasons; They were lawless, barbarians, extremely violent, had a pure hatred for the Jewish God, felt their gods were the true God, killed and enslaved Gods chosen people, had numerous idols and at the time of Moses the Gentiles killed their own children as a rite of passage and burned them in pagan fires as a sacrifice to their gods. They were also uncircumcised, pork eating people. Jews would not even walk through their towns, let alone eat from their bowls or utensils. Therefore, for Gentiles to take Jewish binding Covenant as something they must keep today, when they were not even included back then is somewhat offensive to traditional Orthodox Jews. As a Jew who believes in Jesus as the Messiah I have no problems with Gentile tithing. You belong to God not me. What you do you are doing for him out of worship. In my opinion I just wanted to clarify to people still applying a Jewish promise of abiding by a Covenant Law that was completely fulfilled by Jesus. Faith in the promises of God to give if we give is wonderful and there are many other New scriptures on giving that may be better suited to place faith in but placing faith in a Jewish law somehow seemed, well to be blunt kind of silly. I have the same conversation with believing Jews on why they keep feast and Jewish ceremonies now that they have received Jesus as Messiah. It is a matter of tradition and custom. There are Christians that know tithing, the Priesthood, temple sacrifices etc was fulfilled but do it because it is what is required by their own Church.
This is not my business but spreading factual information may be helpful to someone out there.
To Jew who loves the Messiah — no problem and I can appreciate your history, heritage and understanding. I am simply stating that faith drives Christianity. We believe what the bible says as being the word of God — operative word there is “believe”. That requires faith. There are many that believe the Koran, Buddha, etc. have it right. I am sure they would argue theirs is also a walk of faith.
This blog has really departed from the original subject. I tithe and give not because I think there is a curse if I don’t. I tithe because I feel I am being obedient, it is a form of worship, it is an act of FAITH, it is what I WANT TO DO. I don’t fault others that don’t. Just as in any denominations teaching, we will all have to account for what we did on this earth. Some don’t drink, some do and feel it is OK within their church teaching. Who is right when it comes to biblical principles? Some don’t believe in abortion and call themselves a Christian — and believe it or not — some that say they are a Christian think that is OK (amazing huh?). Bottom line — a lot of diverse thinking in this world, and it is up to each of us to ask God for direction in our lives. At the end of the day, we will be held accountable for our actions — no dispute in that — it’s what the bible says — again, if you believe it. And that’s called Faith.
By the way, I have some amazing friends who are Jewish and have accepted that Jesus is the Messiah. I wish you nothing but the best.
Who was it that said, “there is none more blind than those who refuse to see???? I appreciate Dr. Kelly and his efforts in trying to spread the truth about New Testament Tithing but as long as Church Leaders have a money motive to continue to distort and rationalize the reason for it the reinforcement, twisting Bible verses and support for it continue. I could never confess to my Christian friends that I no longer believe tithing is a requirement for the Lords blessing and do not believe it will bring a curse not to. By my personal experience I was better off receiving more blessings from God by believing in his goodness and faithfulness for free. I am somewhat torn about it because most people have to feel that they will get some kind of reward for merit some blessing when they tithe. This is why that Malachi verse directed at the Jews goes over so well. Can the Church survive without strict tithing instructions. What about the Church mortgage? It is a sad fact that people are performance oriented and approval motivated and Pastors have tactics they use for that reason. Few people will do good just for the sake of doing good without a motive to merit something. We come out of our mothers womb into a performance driven world. Even in the Church you are measured by the money you have and the money you give and the time you put into growing the Church. There is that scripture that faith without works is dead (faith). Rarely will people love you unconditionally and not expect anything out of you even Pastors. This is why the concept of Grace as the free gift of God is so hard for people to grasp. Christianity is the only religion where you can’t work your way into Heaven but receive a free ticket in by faith. People feel that they have and must play some part in why they have merited this wonderful gift from God. The Bible is clear that it is not of works so no that one can boast. I think the average Christian has rarely experienced Agape Love (unconditional love) and few believe God will love them if they don’t tithe and follow all of the rules of being super good and super Spiritual. Yet Saints of the Bible had their issue. Notice how Tithers kick and resist the notion that God is faithful enough to bless them and help without having to pay Tithes. Most Christians I know feel they have to work up a sweat to qualify for anything God does for them, as if they make their own children work up a sweat for the things they give them. I have yet to meet a parent that told their child that they cannot eat, have clothes to wear or have a roof over their heads because they were disobedient. Most kept right on giving to their hard headed children. Strong discipline was only used in extreme cases, if the child was being self-destructive or harming others. You have Jesus in the New Testament condemning the tithing Pharisees for not keeping the more important aspects of the Law which interestingly enough was Not tithing.
The Tithe requirement has become such a mental strong-hold that it might take God Himself to eliminate this deception. There are so many people that know better because they have read the truth for themselves but have to grin and bare it rather than lose friends and the approval of their Church Leadership. No one wants to rock the boat. Jesus rocked the boat and it got him crucified (God used the actions of these evil men for his own plan of Salvation).
The Apostles rocked the boat and most all became Martyrs.
If you challenge these peoples Tithe Law they will become outraged just like the Pharisees became outraged and violent when Jesus healed on the Sabbath and did not keep the Ceremonial Washing Law.
They have come out with a new thing way to rationalize tithing some Pastors are now preaching that Jesus is their Melchizedek and since Abraham tithed to Melchizedek we should tithe to Jesus. They use one gimmick after another.Since when did tithing one time become a good example of how to be a faithful Tither?
Matthew 22:21
“Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s”
“Obey them that have rule over and submit to authorities Hebrews 13:17
Romans 13:1 “Everyone must submit the governing authorites”.
Could this apply to Tithing and respecting, your Employer and sit down for this one, the President of the US?
On CNN I saw signs held up saying bury Obama with Kennedy at that rally on Washington lst weekend and other signs that had Obama as an African witch doctor, Nazi and monkey. To be fair liberals did they same with Bush however Liberals are not claiming to be Evangelical Christians or Bible believers.
Would your Jesus approve of hateful things you done then claiming you follow him?
Can you all make your point without malice? Jesus never taught to get involved in a politics. Did he advocate overthrowing the evil empire of his day -the Roman government? He even picked a Tax collector and healed a centurion. Yeah I read your bible. When people get saved they will not want to get abortions or do ungodly things. They need a heart change first. Voting will not change a heart. I have never seen so many hateful so-called Christians in all my life. Advocating the death of a President. You are jerks!
I read in the bible that Daniel served a Babylonia pagan King and showed him great grace and honor. A God fearing dearly beloved man of God working for a pagan king & honoring him as in Oh king live forever my God delivered me from the Lions den, read it yourself he said the opposite of what these signs said about bury Obama. People don’t want any part of you people because you are supposed to be known by your love not prejudices. Jesus said you will know Christians by their love.
I would gladly pay tithes even if it’s a lie to support a loving Churches not one that prays that God strike down any politicians. If God put them their since you people believe God is in control of all things for some purpose, then why the animosity? If you sit under a Pastor then obey him. If your boss is unfair do you slander him or pray that God change him? No you people want to call down fire on people that you don’t approve of. What disgrace read your own bibles and live it then people will not over support you with money but believe you all mean what you say Mr. Kelly who was at the March on Washigton according to your blog!
Amazing. Truly amazing. Everybody is entitled to their opinions and debates can be great but wow – such negativity and meaness. I thought we were all worshiping the same God. The God I worship wouldn’t want me to be as ugly as I saw some of you being. Obedient – I’m with you 100%. Your faith comes through very clearly in your writing. Those of you who speak of curses and churches that threaten you if you don’t tithe/give – I feel sorry for you and hope that someday you will find a church that truly teaches the Word and doesn’t threaten you. Tithing is a choice but as Obedient stated – it is also about faith. If you have faith in the Lord and trust Him you won’t think twice about it. You will inherently know it is the right thing to do. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. We will all have hard times in our lives – illness, hardships, death of loved ones. This is life. We will have suffering. Tithing/giving is not going to stop that. As for me and my family, we follow what the Lord has laid on our hearts. He provides for us, without our ever asking. Who are we not to take what He has given us and share it with others who are less fortunate? But for his grace I could have been born in a third world country, could have been uneducated, could have suffered from serious illness. Because I have a blessed life and God has provided for me – I chose to be a good steward of that which He has given me. God bless each and every one of you. And seriously, if the church you attend threatens you with curses, seek out another.
To those of you dismissing OT laws as no longer applying- Do the ten commandments no longer apply then? Of course they still apply- and nothing in the NT dismisses tithing as no longer required either.
Pick and choose which of God’s requirements to follow if you like, as for me and my house…