Bible Verses: Should Christians Debate?

August 16th, 2010

I had someone write an email to me about why we Christians should have no reason to debate the word of God. The irony of it is it’s ok, to debate about whether we should debate?

Here are a few bible verses that i picked up on a small study on whether Christians should debate. I could use more bible verses, so if you wish, post more verses on debating in the comments, and i will add them here.

Acts 18:28
For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

1 Peter3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Philippians 1:17
But the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.

Proverbs 25:9
Debate your case with your neighbor, And do not disclose the secret to another;

Acts 19:8-10
And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.
But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.
And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

Everybody in the Church Start Tithing

August 2nd, 2010

Another tithing rap. The lyrics to the rap are written below. I did as best i could with my dictation. If anyone can help with corrections or with the empty blanks, feel free to input it into the comments.

Not Tithing is very bad, but I got some ballin members though.

Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah. Everybody here with me.

One, here comes the  two, to the three, and the four.
Ushers passing plates down your row.
Baby keep your change cause I know you got more.
Turn her purse over, all the money on the floor.
Must be the hurt that I preach hard core,
or maybe that you can’t buy my sermon in the stores.
______sermon leave by the door.
I gotta get the game  on move out the door.

Don’t try to play me cause I aint the one.
The metal device will detect the  ______.
When you come to my church we have fun.
But if you don’t tithe player you better run.
I’m back in my study trying to count what was done.
Hold up lady where is she coming from?
She come talking about what her money done.
Change your attitude now cause you aint being nothing.

Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.

It’s true. If I keep preaching they stay I know it’s fine.
Now I’m seeing sleep when all my members tithe.
Some more days pass and now it’s almost Friday.
Now they talking about how much they hate their job.
Ya’ll need to work so you can pay God.
You gotta be the key that leaves husband and wife.
The fellowship hall has sweet potato pie.
I hope you all don’t think I’m a preacher all night.
If you all think that, then that’s a bunch of lies.

Here comes a member _______ down his shoes.
Cover that toe cause the little one is new.
Get your wallet out cause the sermon is  ________.
We have more than one collection, we got two.
Don’t get caught staring up at my at my jewels.
You gotta a nice step on my alligator shoes.
All my suit got matching shoes.

Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.
Everybody in the Church Start Tithing.

Alright, we gonna stand up and come down the center aisle. Ushers, if you can bring em from the back, bring them down to the center. Start it from the back.

Some Nagging Thoughts in my Mind

July 14th, 2010

- Giving to the poor
The concept to support the poor through offerings is reiterated in the New Covenant, so why wouldn’t tithing be reiterated to support the spread of the gospel even just once?

- In regards to tithing and the New Testament:
The number one problem i had when i once believed in the tithing mandate was that all i could see was the consistency and repetitiveness of tithing. I could not see the other inconsistent, and incompatible errors it has under the new covenant. Anyone can see the similarities of any screwdriver and any screw, but it’s inconsistencies that will tell you whether or not a screw driver will fit the screw.

- To those who hate when I condemn prosperity preachers and their self serving ministries:
“God put this religious system here. But when the nation became so sinful, He sent the Babylonains in and they destroyed the very system which he had setup.” – Jim Gables, Vineland Park Baptist Church

- In regards to former multi-millionaire Mark Brunnel’s bankruptcy:
Why are people allowed to tithe while in bankruptcy proceedings?

- Why require Tithing and not Circumcision?:
Circumcision does not raise money. 1 Timothy 6:10

- Tithing and Debt:
I forget which is right and which is wrong – to tithe while in debt, or to gain debt while tithing?

- Tithing Money, Food, & Corruption
It’s important to note the reasons why the tithe was only food in the bible. It’s hard to hoard food when you can only eat so much of it. It’s quite the opposite with money . . . it seems you never have enough.

- Tithing to your neighbor
If i told you to tithe to your neighbor, what would your giving look like? But if i told you to love your neighbor as yourself, now what would your giving look like?

Pros and Cons: Tithing v. Spirit Led Giving

June 22nd, 2010

1. Punishments

  • Tithing
    Malachi 3:9
    You are cursed with a curse
  • Spirit led giving
    Acts 5:1-10
    But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
    But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

    Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried [him] out, and buried [him].

    Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.

    And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?”

    She said, “Yes, for so much.”

    Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband [are] at the door, and they will carry you out.”

    Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying [her] out, buried [her] by her husband.

  • WINNER: Spirit Led Giving

2. Rewards

  • Tithing
    Malachi 3:10
    And try Me now in this,” Says the LORD of hosts, “If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you [such] blessing That [there will] not [be room] enough [to receive it].
  • Spirit led giving
    2 Corinthians 9:8
    And God [is] able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all [things], may have an abundance for every good work.
  • WINNER: TIE

3. Effectiveness

  • Tithing
    Deuteronomy 14:29
    And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who [are] within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.
  • Spirit led giving
    Acts 4:34
    Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold,
  • WINNER: Spirit Led Giving

4. Cheerfulness

  • Tithing
    Matthew 23:23
    Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier [matters] of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
  • Spirit Led Giving
    2 Corinthians 9:7
    [So let] each one [give] as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
  • WINNER: Spirit Led Giving

5. New Covenant Commands

Tithing
. . .    . . .     . . .

Spirit Led Giving
Romans 12:6-8
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, [let us use them]: if prophecy, [let us] [prophesy] in proportion to our faith; or ministry, [let us use it] in [our] ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality;

WINNER: Spirit Led Giving

Honk if you Love Jesus

June 21st, 2010

Yeah. i know something off the cuff, but i thought it was good enough to post.

honk if you love jesus text while driving

Walk a Mile in These Shoes

June 15th, 2010

I felt it good to post a comment from a past blog and then write my response here.

Mac says:
06/15/2010

Wow, spoken out of true ignorance. Churches are not perfect, they are run by human beings, but i have seen … alot more good and grace and mercy come through the church than our government. Here’s food for thought for you all. You think preachers have it made? Well consider this. Because a church is tax exempt they do not pay income or social security taxes on preachers. That means it is the preacher’s responsibility to pay both the employer’s portion and their own portion. Also unlike you desk jockeys, a church does not pay into preacher’s social security so if a preacher becomes disabled they are pretty much screwed. Add on top of that the fact that many churches do not provide benefits, like health insurance, etc. Churches get no government assistance whatsoever, that means they are totally dependent on … you to give donations to pay their bills and pay the pastor, etc. But since you are more concerned with buying a Starbucks latte or an apple Ipad than supporting your local church, alot of churches have to shut their doors. Until you have walked a mile in someone’s shoes don’t assume you know anything at all. I hope you read this article author man, you make me completely sick.

Mac,
I am a self employed individual. Every day i wake up wondering why my next paycheck is going to come from. I wonder if God will provide me some business today, and on top of that worry about my competition (unlike a church). If i were to be disabled in any way, probably the only job i could get is at a church. I started my business with no income or contracts, with no customer base or initial converts.

I do not have a health, nor retirement plan. I pay full state and federal taxes on my sales and income (unlike a church), and also have to pay for social security for myself and as an employer.

Most of the people in my situation do not have the opportunity to plead at the pulpit for more support (unlike a pastor). If i need some sort of assistance, my church fellowship might provide some temporary relief, but in the end i have to get off my ass and find a job and work like the rest of the world. It’s an enlightening opportunity to actually be a full time servant of God amongst the rest of the world.

My wife and I own 2 cars over 10 years old, and have worked hard to pay them off. I have a silverado loaded with nothing(nope not even power windows), and a toyota camry with over 190,000 miles (praying that it will go to at least 250,000). I have a 32? old school box TV, and i do not pay for cable. I have 1000 sq ft home with 1 child now and 1 on the way.

I have worked for a church doing administrative work for about a year, and was let go because of budget cuts.

I say all this not for a pat on the back or some applause, because it really is not as hard as you or I make it sound. Mac, i’ve walked miles in these shoes. Did i blame my clients because they didn’t choose my services? Did i blame God during the hard times because i was frustrated? Did i get mad at people in the Church for not giving?

All-in-all Mac, i think you just need to calm down. I’ve never seen a man of God without his needs taken care of. Regardless if you are a pastor or you squeegee sewage all day; the common denominator it all boils down to with everyone is something called faith

I couldn’t agree more with your statement about the church and government. The church is where grace should be coming from. Instead most churches are willing to pass the torch off to our government. It’s ludicrous to watch the pulpit being used to make social demands from the government. It’s also bizarre to me that people expect to see Jesus more from our government than from our Church – just look at hurricane katrina.

There’s only one way to stop the insanity, and that’s to purify the church of greed and corruption. We’re not going to stop all this mess at the polls or at the next tea party rally. Political rally’s are just band-aids on gunshot wounds. It has to come from God’s people and within the family of God.

I do not apologize if the blog article offended you or if it seemed too radical. Once again, i didn’t write my experiences to play my trumpet. I could care less about what people think.

Malachi 3:3-4
He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem Will be pleasant to the LORD, As in the days of old, As in former years.

-  jared, author of the blog

Tithing Opponents Throughout History

June 5th, 2010

I came across this information at http://russkellyphd.blogspot.com/. I haven’t verified all of this information, but this is a very extensive and powerful list of historical opponents of tithing.

Tithing opponents throughout the years as compiled by Dr. David Croteau, Liberty University, You Mean I Don’t Have to Tithe?, p271-292. www.slaveoftheword.blogspot.com/ See Footnotes for transcript evidence.

Clement of Rome 100
Didache 100
Justin Martyr 165
Tertullian 230
Origen 255
Cyprian 258
Waldenses 1150+-
Thomas Aquinas 1275
John Wycliff 1384
John Huss 1415
German Peasants 1520
Anabaptists 1525
Erasmus 1536
Otto Brumfels 1534
Martin Luther 1546
Philip Melanchthon 1560
Separatists Amsterdam 1603
John Smythe 1609 Baptist
John Robinson 1610
English Parliament 1650+-
Puritans & Plgrims Mass 1650+-
John Cotton 1652 Puritan
Roger Williams 1636 Baptist
Little Parliament 1653
Oliver Cromwell 1658
John Milton 1658 Puritan
Particular Baptists 1660
John Owen 1680 Baptist
Francis Turretin 1687
John Bunyan 1688 Baptist
Quakers 1768
John Gill 1771 Baptist
John Wesley 1791 (my site)
BAPTISTS IN AMERICA 1800s
Adam Clarke 1832 Baptist
Charles Buck 1833
J C Philpot 1835 Baptist
Charles H Spurgeon 1832 Baptist
Parsons Cooke 1850
Samuel Harris 1850
Edward A Lawrence 1850
John Peter Lange 1876
Henry William Clark 1891 Engllish
S H Kellogg 1891
G Campbell Morgan 1898 Congregational
Albert Vail 1913 Baptist
Frank Fox 1913
David MaConaughy 11918 Episcopal
William Pettingill 1932
John Harvey Grime 1934 Baptist
John T Mueller 1934 Lutheran
H E Dana 1937 Bapt Historian
R C H LENSKI 1946 Lutheran
Lewis Sperry Chafer 1948 DTS Foundeer
W E Vine 1949
James F Rand 1953
Francis Pieper 1953 Lutheran
Ray Stedman 1951
L L McR 1955 Catholic
Paul Leonard Stagg 1958 Baptist
Hiley H Ward 1958 Baptist
Roy T Cowles 1958
Elizabeth P Tilton 1958
R C Rein 1958 Lutheran
Robert A Baker 1959 Bapt Historian
Wick Bromall 1960
John Byron Evans 1960
Norman Tenpas 1967
James Edward Anderson 1967
Alfred Martin 1968
CHARLES C RYRIE 1969 DTS
Jerry Horner 1972 S Baptist
Pieter Verhoef 1974
Dennis Wretlind 1975
Jack J Peterson 1978 Pres
Donald Kraybill 1978
Jon Zens 1979 Baptist
Richard Cunningham 1979 S Bapt
Gary Frieson 1980
JOHN MACARTHUR 1982-2000
Paul Fink 1982
George Monroe Castillo 1982
Tony Badillo 1984
James M Boice 1986
Michael E Oliver 1986 Rest
W Clyde Tilley 1987
Scott Collier 1987
Ronald M Campbell 1987
R E O White 1988
William McDonald 1989
Charles Swindoll 1990 Dallas Seminary
Rhodes Thompson 1990
J VERNON MCGEE 1999
Jerome Smith 1992
CRAIG BLOMBERG 1993 Denver Seminary
J Duncan M Derrett 1993
Walter Kaiser Jr 1994 Gordon-Cromwell
Moises Silva 1994
Benny D Prince 1995
Brian K Morley 1996
Linda L Belleville 1996
Ron Rhodes 1997
Ernest L Martin 1997
Michael Webb 1998
R Johnston 1999
Mark Snoeberger 2000 Baptist
Stuart Murray 2000 Eng
George W Greene 2000
Old Line Primitive Baptists 2000
Jaime Cardinal Sin 2000 Cath Archbishop
RUSSELL EARL KELLY 2001 Baptist
Jonathan Kitchcart 2001
Frank Viola 2002
George Barna 2002
Michael Morrison 2002
Elliott Miller 2003
Matthew Narramore 2004
David Alan Black 2004 Baptist SEBTS
Andreas Kostenberger 2007 Baptist SEBTS
Danny Akin 2007 Baptist SEBTS
Mark Driscoll 2008
Roman Catholic Church
Jehovah’s Witnesses
New Worldwide Church of God

Tithing Sermons – Should or Shouldn’t?

June 1st, 2010

  1. Why you should: Your Church is broke.
    Why you shouldn’t: Your church will be more broke
    I understand that the utilities, rent, and honorable salaries need to be paid. But we need to learn to cut expenses. The “American Greed Dream” can’t creep into homes without it creeping into the Church.
  2. Why you should: Your pastor wants a new car
    Why you shouldn’t: Someone else needs a car more
    A little perspective goes a long way. Look at how others poorer than you live their lives and try to imagine your attitude under their circumstances. Determine your wants vs. needs.
  3. Why you should: Your Church wants a coffee shop
    Why you shouldn’t: Your coffee shop is only open 1 day a week
    A majority of Church buildings are largely under-utilized so let’s get smart about what were spending our money on.
  4. Why you should: You want a new building
    Why you shouldn’t: Can i remind you that were in a recession?
    I’m not saying that great sacrifices can’t be done during hard times, but let’s not forget that a recession means 10% unemployment, higher taxes, forecloses, and salary cuts. Let’s not forget that your biggest need might be to expand your walls, but, someone’s biggest need this week may be what they are going to give their kids for dinner. Once again, a little perspective.
  5. Why you should: You want to buy new drum set for the band
    Why you shouldn’t: Bongo’s are soooo much cheaper!
    This may be just my pet peeve, but I’m kind of getting tired of seeing 5 guitar players and a drummer on stage. Can’t anyone play anything else?
  6. Why you should: You want people to be blessed
    Why you shouldn’t:
    People will be cursed instead
    I’ve said it once, I’ve said it twice. . . Shoot! . . . I don’t know how many times I’ve said it, but tithing is an Old Testament law.
    Galatians 3:10 – “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse
  7. Why you should: It’s Stewardship month
    Why you shouldn’t: Why spend time talking about 10% of our money?
    Am i missing something here, or is there a reason why churches are concerned about the 10% that they get from you and spend very little time advising you on the other 90% that they aren’t getting from you? I’m wondering if they take the time to advise you on the 90, I’m sure there would be less problems collecting the 10. Like i said above it’s hard for greed to slip into the home without it slipping into the Church. The apple does not fall far from the tree.